Thank You Ford.

[IDCnC]

Yeah, it does sound like we are in a better situation. Maybe. Apparently nothing is off the table until we get the call from the dealer.

We are a little upset as far as the credit is concerned but my primary beef is the lack of details about the delay. In my 26 years working in Govt I always played by these rules

Don't say you'll do it unless you actually can do it
If you can't do what you said you would, explain exactly why you can't

Just my sense of professionalism kicking in.

Will post any updates as they come in.

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[AKgrampy]

Yeah, it does sound like we are in a better situation. Maybe. Apparently nothing is off the table until we get the call from the dealer.

We are a little upset as far as the credit is concerned but my primary beef is the lack of details about the delay. In my 26 years working in Govt I always played by these rules

Don't say you'll do it unless you actually can do it
If you can't do what you said you would, explain exactly why you can't

Just my sense of professionalism kicking in.

Will post any updates as they come in.

I think the problem is TMI. Ford has too many automatic updates yet they are not in control of the shipping at all. You have every right to be disappointed by the changing delivery schedule but at the same time you should not be surprised. There seems to be no rhyme or reason to the shipping process as some people get them fast and some disappear into a black hole. Mine was built within 4 weeks of the 22MY starting and then took 70 days to travel to Alaska. Disappeared for 3 weeks on rail from KC to Seattle. Maybe you will still get a Christmas miracle!

 

[4sallypat]

Imagine how those who ordered in early 2022 feel. I think most would have expected delivery within 2022, but for some who were pushed to 2023 MY, the $7,500 will be there no longer.

That's me!

Ordered '22 MME (April) and told no dice - pushed to '23.
Order on hold (Priority 99) in August, COVP order went in Sept - (Priority 10).
Ford confirmed build in October as Priority 1 due to '22 order conversion.
Build week 12/5, modules active 12/7.
Dealer quoting delivery 1/21-1/28.

I lost:

• Options on Select trim (C-T)
• Had to upgrade to Premium for those options
• 2.74% Ford Options
• Color (IBSM)
• $3750 tax credit for 2023 delivery

Gained:

• $6000 PCO
• Higher APR rate

 

[HGxxx]

2022 MME AWD ER RED-Ordered 12/7/2021, built 9/13/22, arrived SoCal dealer 12/6/22... one year later (9 months waiting to be built, 3 months "in transit".) Two months of sitting at Ramp 6R Richards-Gebaur, MO and only about 20 total days on moving train to go about 3200 miles.) Ford's delivery estimate at time of ordering 28+ weeks. Actual delivery time 52 weeks. I'm actually glad that Ford is doing better with the 2023MY MME deliveries than they seem to have done with 2021 and 2022. As for half the potential Fed tax credit, you probably know that IRS will issue "guidance" on the EV battery qualification portion in early 2023. Perhaps you'll qualify for the full $7500 amount but in 2023 tax year.
May the Ford be with you.

So you got the car?? Congrats

 

[Mrn]

I need some help here. My understanding of the rebate rules are:

1. For almost all people the new BBB rules apply to anyone who received a car after Biden signed it in into law unless they had a binding contract. None of us have a binding contract.

2. BBB refunds applies to MMEs that cost less than 80k, if you consider them SUVs, or less than 55k if they are not considered SUVs.

3. They pass the Built-in-North-America test.

4. I'm not sure where the batteries are sourced but I thought that wasn't a problem for MMEs.

5. A married couple filing jointly can have a taxable income < 300k for 2022 and still qualify.

...what else...? I'm guessing it's #5 that's at issue in this discussion

 

[DennisD]

Yeah, it does sound like we are in a better situation. Maybe. Apparently nothing is off the table until we get the call from the dealer.

We are a little upset as far as the credit is concerned but my primary beef is the lack of details about the delay. In my 26 years working in Govt I always played by these rules

Don't say you'll do it unless you actually can do it
If you can't do what you said you would, explain exactly why you can't

Just my sense of professionalism kicking in.

Will post any updates as they come in.

If your Dealership has the VIN #, which I am sure they do, can't you "prepay" for the car even though it has not landed on the Dealership lot? You could get a bill of sale with that exact car (because it already has been built) and basically pick it up in January, that would be all that is needed to qualify for the tax credit. You technically own it at that point of sale. I would think the Dealership would have incentive to meet a year end quota as well.

I grew up on a Farm and my Dad did countless purchases with Farm Implement Dealerships and got the tractor, combine etc. delivered later in the following year and it was all "above ground" legal wise. Same goes for the fertilizer and seed corn purchases. He made many of these for tax purposes on December 31st. in many instances.

I am not sure a Car Dealership can do this but it would be worth asking. Rules might be different?

I can totally see not being able to do this if the car was still in Mexico, but if it sitting in a railyard, I would buy it sight unseen in this case.

It can't be this simple though I am sure.

 

[Maquis]

I need some help here. My understanding of the rebate rules are:

1. For almost all people the new BBB rules apply to anyone who received a car after Biden signed it in into law unless they had a binding contract. None of us have a binding contract.

2. BBB refunds applies to MMEs that cost less than 80k, if you consider them SUVs, or less than 55k if they are not considered SUVs.

3. They pass the Built-in-North-America test.

4. I'm not sure where the batteries are sourced but I thought that wasn't a problem for MMEs.

5. A married couple filing jointly can have a taxable income < 300k for 2022 and still qualify.

...what else...? I'm guessing it's #5 that's at issue in this discussion

#1 isn’t correct.
#3 is the only thing that kicked in when the bill was signed. The rest are effective 1/1/23.
There’s still some debate about how #4 phases in.
The official IRS rules that implement these provisions haven’t been released yet, AFAIK.

 

[GoGoGadgetMachE]

If your Dealership has the VIN #, which I am sure they do, can't you "prepay" for the car even though it has not landed on the Dealership lot? You could get a bill of sale with that exact car (because it already has been built) and basically pick it up in January, that would be all that is needed to qualify for the tax credit. You technically own it at that point of sale. I would think the Dealership would have incentive to meet a year end quota as well.

I grew up on a Farm and my Dad did countless purchases with Farm Implement Dealerships and got the tractor, combine etc. delivered later in the following year and it was all "above ground" legal wise. Same goes for the fertilizer and seed corn purchases. He made many of these for tax purposes on December 31st. in many instances.

I am not sure a Car Dealership can do this but it would be worth asking. Rules might be different?

I can totally see not being able to do this if the car was still in Mexico, but if it sitting in a railyard, I would buy it sight unseen in this case.

It can't be this simple though I am sure.

this was my question as well - the OP could in theory do a sales order on 12/31 if they are sure they want the car, but that's got its own form of risk. Once the VIN is generated there's enough to at least get the paperwork going, no?

I think this idea has been kicked around on here on other threads.

 

[Mrn]

#1 isn’t correct.
#3 is the only thing that kicked in when the bill was signed. The rest are effective 1/1/23.
There’s still some debate about how #4 phases in.
The official IRS rules that implement these provisions haven’t been released yet, AFAIK.

What's wrong with #1?

 

[Blue highway]

I think some of you are missing my point.

I applaud Ford for the job they have done with the Mach e. I know there were problems with 2021 and 2022 (that's one of the reasons I never buy the first 2 model years). But given that this is a new product outside of their typical area of expertise, I think their handling so far has been good. I've have Fords for the last 38 years (3 x Explorer 1 x Escape) and I like them

On our order the given production date was held to. The build took about a week (expected). Now here is where our issue is. I don't know how Ford defines it, but to us shipped means it's on the transport and moving. So now after 22 days of shipped, we get an email using the vague term "Unanticipated shipping delays" and moving the delivery date back an additional 36 days. No rail strike threat (we were sweating that one), no details, just the vague "Unanticipated shipping delays". A little clarity would have been much appreciated.

That's my point.

It's surprising to me that the logistics companies (Railroads mostly) don't get more heat over this. Ford, and anybody else for that matter only knows position and ETA in what the shipper tells them.

the railroads are generally taking just a little longer to move cars from Mexico to the west coast, than it would take to walk the distance... with a cow.

 

[Maquis]

What's wrong with #1?

All of the rules do not apply to anyone who received a car as of the date the bill was signed. Only the North American final assembly requirement.

 

[Bigfeets]

So you got the car?? Congrats

Haha, close but no cigar. I've been told it is at the dealer and being prep'd for our purchase appointment. Assuming it passes inspection, dealer's and prospective owner's, this weekend is when I'll have gotten the long-awaited MME. Hence, delivery will be exactly 368 days after ordering.

 

[astrorob]

right - if you take delivery by 12/31/2022 then the old rules apply to you, except for the NA final assembly requirement. but the MME should qualify since mexico is in NA and is part of NAFTA or whatever it's called now.

there are those on this board that believe that if you have a binding contract, then the delivery date does not matter - you could take delivery in 2023 and the old tax credit would still apply. if this is true, if i understand the IRS webpage properly, it would only apply if this written contract were executed before august 16, 2022. for people with converted orders this is certainly a possibility.

the problem is that no one that ordered on the web has a binding contract. the deposits are probably refundable and don't meed the dollar threshold that the IRS says would be evidence of a binding contract anyway. and I've never heard of someone being forced to buy the car they ordered. that doesn't mean it didn't happen but i think we would have heard about it here. dealers are more than happy to take the ordered car, add ADM, and sell it to walk-ins. heck, some dealers are adding ADM to web orders, so right there that's an indication that there's no binding contract.

 

[ChuckA]

We are getting a 2023 Mach e Premium eAWD. Here is the e-mail saga so far...

8/31/22 - Reservation entered and confirmed. Yay!!!!!
9/23/22 - Confirmation of Build Date (week of 11/7/22) and VIN. Yay!!!
10/4/22 - Build Date changed to week on 10/31/22 (the first first production week) . Yay!!!
10/11/22 - Build Date changed back to week of 11/7/22. S'ok... ?
11/13/22 - Build is completed. ETD to dealer is week of 12/4/22. Yay!!!
11/14/22 - Car is SHIPPED. ETD to dealer is still week of 12/4/22. Yay!!!
12/6/22 - Unanticipated Delays... New ETD to dealer is now week of 1/9/22. ?

So... Thanks to Ford's logistics (or lack of) we now have lost any chance of snagging the $7,500 tax credit (something we were looking for to help offset the $8,300 price increase from 2022 models).

I got a rail car number (no prefix just a number) from the dealer but according to CSX that car is empty and has been sitting somewhere in Louisiana since June and UP doesn't know what that number is.

Don't get me wrong. We are both still excited about getting the car. We're just really bummed that Ford now seems to need and additional 36 days (for a total of 57 days) to get something from Mexico City to Boise, Idaho. That, and the fact that it will now cost us at least $3,750 more than we had originally planned.

CnCLowe
2023 Mustang Mach e Premium eAWD RED RED RED.

Don’t be discouraged yet. In Aug ‘21 my MME showed up at the dealer 2 weeks early after having it’s eta being pushed out. The dealer didn’t know in advance. It just “showed up” unexpectedly.

 

[minders]

If your Dealership has the VIN #, which I am sure they do, can't you "prepay" for the car even though it has not landed on the Dealership lot? You could get a bill of sale with that exact car (because it already has been built) and basically pick it up in January, that would be all that is needed to qualify for the tax credit. You technically own it at that point of sale. I would think the Dealership would have incentive to meet a year end quota as well.

I grew up on a Farm and my Dad did countless purchases with Farm Implement Dealerships and got the tractor, combine etc. delivered later in the following year and it was all "above ground" legal wise. Same goes for the fertilizer and seed corn purchases. He made many of these for tax purposes on December 31st. in many instances.

I am not sure a Car Dealership can do this but it would be worth asking. Rules might be different?

I can totally see not being able to do this if the car was still in Mexico, but if it sitting in a railyard, I would buy it sight unseen in this case.

It can't be this simple though I am sure.

I think the catch here is the IRS requires the vehicle to be "placed in service" before 12/31/22. From the IRS site: "Use Form 8936 to figure your credit for qualified plug-in
electric drive motor vehicles you placed in service during your tax year." Form 8936 Instructions

Unfortunately I don't think the legal definition of "placed in service" would really cover you for not taking delivery until 1/1/23 or after and claiming on 2022 taxes. Cornell University law library lists it as: "The term placed in service means the time that property is first placed by the taxpayer in a condition or state of readiness and availability for a specifically assigned function, whether for use in a trade or business, for the production of income, in a tax-exempt activity, or in a personal activity."

I asked my dealer about this since I was expecting to wait for the '23 I ordered instead of getting the '22 and was told they wouldn't do it for several reasons. It was something along the lines of if there's damage in transit or lost, if I changed my mind it's not as simple as a retail store return, and they couldn't promise I'd get the tax credit since I hadn't taken delivery yet since that was a requirement per IRS.

I'm not a lawyer or a tax preparer, I only have a degree in Accounting, so take this info as you will.

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