The only thing Tesla has over Mach-E

[kens]

FSD does have problems...

mostly sign reading related...

reacting to school zones, etc...

mapping issues...

So provided you never enter a school zone while it is flashing...

and don't have any odd signs that trip up fsd...

So as long as the rare time you need to pull over to the side of the road for an emergency vehicle goes without a hitch...

Sounds like it really can't be trusted yet, and certainly can't go months without touching the wheel or pedals as previously stated, please pay attention when you're using it.

I think it's a cool system, I'm all for it, and am glad they are aggressively pursuing it. I got to use the free month trial maybe six months ago and really enjoyed playing with it, but it made a lot of mistakes. I had fun letting it try to go 'door to door', it just couldn't quite do it yet. For me it was mostly auto lane change related; multiple times it changed into "lanes" that did not exist, like emergency lanes; it often would cut off overtaking cars by changing lanes in front of them, etc. My experience, combined with the problems you've seen tell me it's not there yet, but it's getting there.

Bluecruise has performed much better, and more reliably on the freeway for me than FSD did. The Ford ADAS is overall a very good system that I really enjoy, it's excellent around town too. Tesla's FSD will certainly be far better eventually, but for now makes far more mistakes than the more basic system Ford uses, which isn't a knock on Tesla, they are pushing the limits and have more trouble because of it.

Sponsored

 

[tobiasjef]

Sounds like it really can't be trusted yet, and certainly can't go months without touching the wheel or pedals as previously stated, please pay attention when you're using it.

I think it's a cool system, I'm all for it, and am glad they are aggressively pursuing it. I got to use the free month trial maybe six months ago and really enjoyed playing with it, but it made a lot of mistakes. I had fun letting it try to go 'door to door', it just couldn't quite do it yet. For me it was mostly auto lane change related; multiple times it changed into "lanes" that did not exist, like emergency lanes; it often would cut off overtaking cars by changing lanes in front of them, etc. My experience, combined with the problems you've seen tell me it's not there yet, but it's getting there.

Bluecruise has performed much better, and more reliably on the freeway for me than FSD did. The Ford ADAS is overall a very good system that I really enjoy, it's excellent around town too. Tesla's FSD will certainly be far better eventually, but for now makes far more mistakes than the more basic system Ford uses, which isn't a knock on Tesla, they are pushing the limits and have more trouble because of it.

the point is that the performance of FSD is very predictable. The "issues" are solvable ones.

Tesla actually does hard stuff like driving in heavy rain, snow covered roads, dense NYC traffic, with no issues

The fundamental driving quality of tesla is excellent now.

If you look at FSD in china it is leagues above the chinese vehicles in smoothness and ability but has localization issues which make it break chinese road rules or not understand the traffic lights/bus lanes

 

[Ahlarict]

Yeah, yeah… Who doesn’t love Teslers? https://www.facebook.com/share/v/19NjdPvka8/

 

[kens]

52k is the launch edition which is fully loaded with white interior, free paint color, larger wheels and full self driving and acceleration boost standard

The launch edition will end in a couple weeks and the price will match the old model Y.

There is a 25% tarriff against ford because the car is made in Mexico. It was suspended for 1 month, except that 1 month is before they are building many 2025 models

As far as pricing you have to look at tesla inventory. Tesla doesn't sell vehicles for "one price" despite what people believe. They have inventory discounts up to $5000 whenever they want to clearance old stock. They also sell showroom models which people have sat in

52k is the price for now though, as I said before I fully expect the price to eventually drop.

I did look at Tesla's inventory for the pricing I quoted above, it was current, the discounts were included, even the $7500 credit that not everyone will get.

The tariff your talking about has not been applied to Ford yet, and may never come about as it keeps getting put off, until it does there is no extra 25% on these cars. There's a whole other thread on that topic if you want to take the discussion that way though, this thread should stay on topic of the car features.

the point is that the performance of FSD is very predictable. The "issues" are solvable ones.

Of course the issues are solvable, and will be.

I wouldn't call what I saw the car do in driving into emergency lanes and randomly cutting off cars predictable though. Even the issues you've seen of ignoring school zones and traffic signs poses real danger.

We've seen time and again the human nature of us drivers getting complacent and trusting the tech. Countless videos of people sleeping, or reading, or whatever while their FSD handles things, and plenty of accidents where the driver wasn't doing their part and people were killed. These systems are dangerous if we don't respect them.

But we're getting there.

 

[tobiasjef]

We've seen time and again the human nature of us drivers getting complacent and trusting the tech. Countless videos of people sleeping, or reading, or whatever while their FSD handles things, and plenty of accidents where the driver wasn't doing their part and people were killed. These systems are dangerous if we don't respect them.

Firstly, those accidents were autopilot. Which is a tech from 2017. people are not dying using FSD or it would not be operating like it is today

Secondly, FSD DOES slow down for school zones but the behavior is not always correct or happening 100% of the time. As long as you avoid a school zone, FSD has not really other issues.

My "sign reading" comment was about signs like no right turn on red which seems like it is a "solved" problem by integrating the signs into mapping. Tesla seems like they can integrate most signs into mapping.

And from a fundamental safety issue, tesla does not have many of those anymore. Their auto emergency braking systems are great and even if the car did go to fast through a school zone, there is a 0% chance it would hit anything.

With v13 the car mostly does not make the fundamental mistakes it made before and at least not safety ones.

There are edge cases like the car passing on a single lane road and the center camera not having quite a good enough vantage point to see.

 

[kens]

FSD DOES slow down for school zones but the behavior is not always correct or happening 100% of the time. As long as you avoid a school zone

So sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Got it. Perfectly safe.

Just always avoid any roads near schools. Easy. I'm sure the maps have a 'I'm not allowed within 100 yards of a school' button.

FSD has not really other issues.

Sure, ok. Except...

My "sign reading" comment was about signs like no right turn on red which seems like it is a "solved" problem by integrating the signs into mapping. Tesla seems like they can integrate most signs into mapping.

So sometimes it'll run a red light if the map is wrong. Cool. That's safe.

So Tesla can, but hasn't yet included the signs. I imagine they are counting on the users to provide the updates to maps. Croudsourcing is fine, but it's still incomplete. At least it will be since the government never changes signs, ever. Wait... Guess it'll never be complete.

even if the car did go to fast through a school zone, there is a 0% chance it would hit anything.

There is 0% chance that's true. It's not perfect.

There are edge cases like the car passing on a single lane road and the center camera not having quite a good enough vantage point to see.

Driving into oncoming traffic is perfectly safe so long as you have a good excuse I suppose.

.....

Look, I'm a proponent of these systems. I love them now, and look forward to what's coming. I just want to continue to recognize them as they are today, not done baking. On the whole these systems will be safer than us, and are already improving safety, but we can't trust them too much yet. Go, drive, be safe and pay attention.

This has been fun, but I feel the thread is getting derailed.

 

[tobiasjef]

So sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Got it. Perfectly safe.

Just always avoid any roads near schools. Easy. I'm sure the maps have a 'I'm not allowed within 100 yards of a school' button.



Sure, ok. Except...



So sometimes it'll run a red light if the map is wrong. Cool. That's safe.

So Tesla can, but hasn't yet included the signs. I imagine they are counting on the users to provide the updates to maps. Croudsourcing is fine, but it's still incomplete. At least it will be since the government never changes signs, ever. Wait... Guess it'll never be complete.



There is 0% chance that's true. It's not perfect.



Driving into oncoming traffic is perfectly safe so long as you have a good excuse I suppose.

.....

Look, I'm a proponent of these systems. I love them now, and look forward to what's coming. I just want to continue to recognize them as they are today, not done baking. On the whole these systems will be safer than us, and are already improving safety, but we can't trust them too much yet. Go, drive, be safe and pay attention.

This has been fun, but I feel the thread is getting derailed.

your comments are not fundamental safety critical mistakes.

Tesla doesn't HIT things. So it's not going to hit a child in a school zone.

in fact if you look at NHTSA and NCAP tests, tesla has one of the only auto emergency braking that can completely avoid hitting pedestrians in more complex scenarios

Tesla's auto emergency braking does not "react" last minute to things that are directly in front of the car using radar. It sees and predicts the trajectory of all objects far in advance which is why it can avoid stuff without running into physical braking limitations

And no right on red is arguably not a safety issue if the car has the visibility to safely execute a turn

in my city there is a no right on red and the only thing preventing the right on red is a crosswalk in the merging lane. Something that a car sees 360 degrees and has no problem with



Look at this crazy accident avoidance by FSD. At first you can see it is hesitant to go all the way to the right because it predicts the black car trajectory as going in that area, but then the car turns back and gives FSD room

 

[tobiasjef]

https://www.iihs.org/ratings/vehicl...or-suv/2024#front-crash-prevention-pedestrian

look for yourself. At 37mph at night and low beams, it hit a pedestrian at 21 mph.

https://www.iihs.org/ratings/vehicle/tesla/model-y-4-door-suv/2024#front-crash-prevention-pedestrian

No collision same test with nearly 2 seconds earlier warning. And requiring no radar to see at night

Repeat same test at 50-60mph and I bet tesla can dodge pedestrians due to the torque on the steering wheel being able to move fast enough

 

[GreaseMonkey]

Elmo’s troll farm working overtime tonight. Must be the stock price losing 40% that’s creating the intense ad campaign.

 

[tobiasjef]

Elmo’s troll farm working overtime tonight. Must be the stock price losing 40% that’s creating intense the ad campaign.

lmao I don't own a dime of tesla stock and never have

i just hate ignorance

you can go onto other forums and they're all full of ignorance

whereas if you go on tesla forums, everyone hates elon so there are enough tesla haters to keep ignorance in check

 

[kens]

Elmo’s troll farm working overtime tonight. Must be the stock price losing 40% that’s creating intense the ad campaign.

He's slacking though, took him almost a half hour to respond to you.

 

[GreaseMonkey]

He's slacking though, took him almost a half hour to respond to you.

He’s dealing with other duties. So a bit tapped out at the moment.

 

[Mach1E]

Does Ford pay people to go on Tesla forums and advertise for them?

 

[GreaseMonkey]

He said Tesla is awesome, the cheapest, best, highest quality, most features, never fails, etc. Why don't you just believe? Just believe! All hail!

Can you imagine the amount of cool aid concentrate they must have taken down? Sad, really.

 

[tobiasjef]

Can you imagine the amount of cool aid concentrate they must have taken down? Sad, really.

It's easy to compare on a forum where the other car is a bottom-tier EV with some of the slowest charging money can buy, Ford legendary quality and technology, dangerous ADAS system which can't see slow moving vehicles in broad daylight, etc.

The fact that speedometer is broken and ford can't push a simple OTA update to make it look like it did at release?

Sponsored