Trade in Value

[Mach1E]

I've owned 3 different Toyota hybrids: a 2005 Prius, a 2012 Plug-in Prius, and a 2016 Highlander Hybrid. Number of times the wiring harness went bad in the 2005 over 18 years and 283K miles of ownership? 0. The major problem with that car right now is the suspension is shot, interior is less than spectacular, and the HID driver for the headlights is failing. None of those are related to the hybrid-specific part of the car. The PiP has over 160K miles and no issues with the wiring. Same for the HiHy at 100K miles. Toyota's hybrid design is pretty bullet proof at this point.

I suspect, aside from the HVBJB issue, the inverter, motors, and battery in the Mach-E will last way way way past the 100K/8-year warranty period.

I hope you’re right, but this is what we call “blind faith.”

Ford has already proven a few times with this car that durability and reliability were not the primary focus. Many components were under manufactured. This doesn’t inspire confidence on the longevity of the components.

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[GreaseMonkey]

The sweet spot might be 2-3 from now where component makers have learn from first gen mistakes.

From a reliability perspective, yes. I would argue that OEMs will need longer to incorporate learnings from first gen models into ones that are not designed yet. That’s when you’ll get a considerably better car than what we have now.

 

[voxel]

I've owned 3 different Toyota hybrids: a 2005 Prius, a 2012 Plug-in Prius, and a 2016 Highlander Hybrid. Number of times the wiring harness went bad in the 2005 over 18 years and 283K miles of ownership? 0. The major problem with that car right now is the suspension is shot, interior is less than spectacular, and the HID driver for the headlights is failing. None of those are related to the hybrid-specific part of the car. The PiP has over 160K miles and no issues with the wiring. Same for the HiHy at 100K miles. Toyota's hybrid design is pretty bullet proof at this point.

I suspect, aside from the HVBJB issue, the inverter, motors, and battery in the Mach-E will last way way way past the 100K/8-year warranty period.

You live in the Bay Area with perfect weather? Hybrid wiring corrosion is mostly reported in Canada and there's a recall there.

Oh.. trade values just took another dump as Tesla cut prices tonight on the 3, Y, S, and X. Used EV values across the board took another haircut and I heard Tesla will be eligible for 100% tax credit except for the 3 RWD which will be 50%

If the Model S hits $80K, I'm buying one. Zero interest in the other models

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

I've got my eye on a '21 Premium that's listed at $43k and has been sitting for a while. If it goes to below $38k, I'll check with my partner about the fact that it's her favorite color.

 

[devmach-e]

You live in the Bay Area with perfect weather? Hybrid wiring corrosion is mostly reported in Canada and there's a recall there.

Perfect weather? Hardly. I live a mile from the coast. Bread goes moldy if you blink.

 

[voxel]

Perfect weather? Hardly. I live a mile from the coast. Bread goes moldy if you blink.

Did your Toyota rust and fall apart in 8-10 years?

 

[Maquis]

Sure, I agree. But, the old C4 and C6 were much stronger and even better when built. Still, I preferred to run a T5 in my track foxes for sure. And the T5 wasn’t even a stout manual once you got past 450hp or so. And, as good as the 8.8 is, the Ford 9 inch is the drag racers choice.

I had an F250, 7.3 diesel that ate a C6 at 90K.

 

[devmach-e]

Did your Toyota rust and fall apart in 8-10 years?

Thankfully, no. Of course that might be due to a variety of factors. Some of which might be better weather, lack of salt used on roads, and a manufacturer that uses better metal.

 

[EVandSolar]

Moving parts?
Sure.

But if your transmission is broke it’s broke.

How many components make up our battery?

No need to count. It doesn’t matter. If you battery doesn’t work, it doesn’t work.

Again, we really don’t have less “things to break.” Sure, we have less moving parts but way more electrical parts. We just swapped one problem for another.

I’ll say it again, we have less maintenance, but not less stuff that can break. At the end of the day, if your car can’t drive, does it matter if it was a mechanical moving part issue or a capacitor that went out?

And most of the stuff that’s more common to break (a/c, radiator, power windows/mirrors/seats etc) we do have.

I think you couldn't possibly be more wrong. The complexity of an ICE car compared to an EV is astonishing. Think about the engine and all internal engine components, water pump, alternator, all the sensors and switches, plugs, wires, coils, O2 sensors, emission equipment, exhaust, brakes. There are literally thousands of additional failure and maintenance points on ICE cars. And as mentioned, a common source of failure after 100k miles is the enormous cost of engine and/or transmission failure. EV's don't have to contend with any of that. Maybe there are some growing pains with brand new models from manufacturers that have never built an EV before?

 

[EVandSolar]

lol

And I suspect as we get close to election season, we'll see gasoline prices go up again and more "I did that" stickers on gas pumps. Because...totally something our president controls...

Yes, and these stickers are probably put in place by people driving giant V-8 clown trucks and SUV's that get 15 mpg. It's everyone else's fault though. ?

 

[EVandSolar]

We bought a Premium RWD ER. Cost was $54K before taxes, etc. OTD was around $59K. We put $16K down. Factoring in taxes, etc, the amount we financed was ~$43K and our balloon payment is less than $19K. I have no doubt the car will be worth at least $20K in 3 years.

What is the "balloon payment" you are referring to? Sorry, not familiar with it so I'm having trouble making sense of the conversations mentioning this. If you *bought* the car, put money down, and financed the rest, where does a "balloon payment" come into play?

 

[Mach1E]

I think you couldn't possibly be more wrong. The complexity of an ICE car compared to an EV is astonishing. Think about the engine and all internal engine components, water pump, alternator, all the sensors and switches, plugs, wires, coils, O2 sensors, emission equipment, exhaust, brakes. There are literally thousands of additional failure and maintenance points on ICE cars. And as mentioned, a common source of failure after 100k miles is the enormous cost of engine and/or transmission failure. EV's don't have to contend with any of that. Maybe there are some growing pains with brand new models from manufacturers that have never built an EV before?

And yet, I’m not wrong.

If you made it a few more posts into the thread before responding you would have read the multiple studies proving that (for now), electric vehicles are less reliable.

Simple design and less moving parts hasn’t resulted in better reliability……. Yet.

 

[RickMachE]

What is the "balloon payment" you are referring to? Sorry, not familiar with it so I'm having trouble making sense of the conversations mentioning this. If you *bought* the car, put money down, and financed the rest, where does a "balloon payment" come into play?

A balloon payment is the lump sum due at the end of the Ford Options.

A 3 year Ford Options agreement would have a balloon due at the end of 3 years. Ford Options lowers the monthly payment by putting a bunch of principal due at the end of the contract. You are paying interest on it all along. The main purpose of Ford Options is to lower the monthly payment (like a lease), but give the owner the tax credit.

When the balloon is due, you can 1) hand in the keys, 2)pay off the balloon, or 3) refinance the balloon into another loan.

 

[EVandSolar]

And yet, I’m not wrong.

If you made it a few more posts into the thread before responding you would have read the multiple studies proving that (for now), electric vehicles are less reliable.

Simple design and less moving parts hasn’t resulted in better reliability……. Yet.

Interesting...perhaps these first editions are....practice haha. The Chevy Bolt EV is ranked as one of the most reliable cars made, so I guess it depends on the model. Chevy has built/sold quite a few EV's and Hybrids for more than a decade so maybe that plays a part.

 

[Ghost Ryder]

A balloon payment is the lump sum due at the end of the Ford Options.

A 3 year Ford Options agreement would have a balloon due at the end of 3 years. Ford Options lowers the monthly payment by putting a bunch of principal due at the end of the contract. You are paying interest on it all along. The main purpose of Ford Options is to lower the monthly payment (like a lease), but give the owner the tax credit.

When the balloon is due, you can 1) hand in the keys, 2)pay off the balloon, or 3) refinance the balloon into another loan.

I'm on a Ford option plan. And to this day, I couldn't tell you the difference between a lease or the option plan, other than I was able to claim the tax credit with the option plan and not a lease.

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