UK Customers

[Helix]

Perhaps all this picg is being looked at by Ford's legal team before we get an offical announcement.

I doubt the government will shift their position on this as a)from what we know it's not their fault b)plus Ford have set precedent by previously taking the hit for customers in other countries. Unless the ford legal dept find a fault in what the gov did.

No-one should cancel their orders at this point, there is nothing to gain and a lot to lose. A re-order will definitely be £3k higher.

It will take authorisation at a very high level at Ford to agree the cost hit if they have to of all the £3k subsidies.

I assume all the dealers say is they are waiting on ford for a response to this announcement from the government?

Contacted my dealer yesterday Hendy (Portsmouth) - waiting for a response from Ford HQ!!

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[Hotspur28]

Contacted my dealer yesterday Hendy (Portsmouth) - waiting for a response from Ford HQ!!

Ditto my dealer has said same today. The wait continues ?

 

[jongodfrey]

Ford Legal Team might be taking the Government to Court. In 2012 Greenpeace successfully sued the government for not giving adequate notice for FiT changes and won. They got a three month notice period which I managed to fit in to by three days.

I wouldn't be surprised if something similar happens with this change.

 

[SteveUk]

One what grounds did they win that. I'd think this would be a weak case as :-

a) they haven't cancelled the allowance and there are alternative lower priced cars available and thus the scheme still exists.
b) Ford failed to follow the correct admin ie. didn't add the orders into the portal - so the issue isn't about a notice period it's about Ford not looking after their money.
c) had they entered the orders into the portal they had a 9 months period to deliver the cars so plenty of leeway was already available had they used the scheme correctly.

The only defence I can see is that those alternative cars have a lower range and you could argue do not fit the needs of buyers of the ER mache and don't match anywhere near the range of an ICE unlike the mache with it's circa 300miles range. Therefore you could argue the ER Mache needs to be £50k in order to service the kind of battery range required and the ability to replace ICE cars.

Therefore you could argue that what has happened will now promote/push people back to non green cars.

 

[WildboarWes]

Thought this information may be helpful for some...

I've just had northern powergrid out to look at my system. I am on a looped supply (end of loop) and have a 60A fuse. The guy helpfully told me that a loophole is, if you have a 60A fuse you are legally allowed to ask for a 80A fuse upgrade. However, they cannot do this on a looped supply, so they will un-loop at their cost.

I have just started this process, and I have a survey booked in for next week. I will update if the information is correct.

So Northern Powergrid have been out today, and are unlooping free of charge to allow me the higher power I'm entitled to. Result, though it's lucky I have a great neighbor who isn't bothered about digging on his property.

 

[Nick Nick]

One what grounds did they win that. I'd think this would be a weak case as :-

a) they haven't cancelled the allowance and there are alternative lower priced cars available and thus the scheme still exists.
b) Ford failed to follow the correct admin ie. didn't add the orders into the portal - so the issue isn't about a notice period it's about Ford not looking after their money.
c) had they entered the orders into the portal they had a 9 months period to deliver the cars so plenty of leeway was already available had they used the scheme correctly.

The only defence I can see is that those alternative cars have a lower range and you could argue do not fit the needs of buyers of the ER mache and don't match anywhere near the range of an ICE unlike the mache with it's circa 300miles range. Therefore you could argue the ER Mache needs to be £50k in order to service the kind of battery range required and the ability to replace ICE cars.

Therefore you could argue that what has happened will now promote/push people back to non green cars.

The government said they were lowing the threshold so more people could access it for a longer period
it also only impacts those that are more well off

Greenpeace wouldn't argue against the change, more likely to argue FOR the change

 

[SteveUk]

The government said they were lowing the threshold so more people could access it for a longer period
it also only impacts those that are more well off

Greenpeace wouldn't argue against the change, more likely to argue FOR the change

I agree, it is a non story/issue for environmentalists.

 

[SashaLondon]

The scheme is ridiculous. They have lowered the threshold so it affects fewer cars and fewer customers. It will mean that fewer people will take up evs. Just come out and say we need to save money so we are doing this. I cant see how it will affect more customers.

 

[Spensaf]

All the evidence I can find on the Gral San Martin is that she is NOT going to Antwerp so I don't understand why you guys are being told that she is and your cars are on it. Unless the schedule has changed but not published I don't understand it. We will see when she leaves Baltimore

I've queried this twice with Hannah and she has confirmed that her information shows it on the Gral San Martin!

Just a quick question. Does the route take these ships through the Bermuda Triangle?

 

[portlandg]

I've queried this twice with Hannah and she has confirmed that her information shows it on the Gral San Martin!

Just a quick question. Does the route take these ships through the Bermuda Triangle?

I must be wrong then. Perhaps the cars are on board but will offloaded at one of her next 3 stops for transhipment to a ship that is going to Antwerp. Time will tell.

 

[jongodfrey]

One what grounds did they win that. I'd think this would be a weak case as :-

a) they haven't cancelled the allowance and there are alternative lower priced cars available and thus the scheme still exists.
b) Ford failed to follow the correct admin ie. didn't add the orders into the portal - so the issue isn't about a notice period it's about Ford not looking after their money.
c) had they entered the orders into the portal they had a 9 months period to deliver the cars so plenty of leeway was already available had they used the scheme correctly.

The only defence I can see is that those alternative cars have a lower range and you could argue do not fit the needs of buyers of the ER mache and don't match anywhere near the range of an ICE unlike the mache with it's circa 300miles range. Therefore you could argue the ER Mache needs to be £50k in order to service the kind of battery range required and the ability to replace ICE cars.

Therefore you could argue that what has happened will now promote/push people back to non green cars.

The government said they were lowing the threshold so more people could access it for a longer period
it also only impacts those that are more well off

Greenpeace wouldn't argue against the change, more likely to argue FOR the change

the legal case was based on reasonable notice. FiT wasn’t stopped it was reduced without notice. Same as this. Reasonable notice would be the lead time of our orders.

Greenpeace is not relevant, they just fought the FiT case. I suggested Ford or any other OEM might consider the case. Of course Greenpeace should take it as £50k EV’s are £25k in three years and £15k in 6 years. That’s the whole point of affordability. We need used cars available to meet the Government's own targets. I was speculating that Ford legal could sight it as precedent.

 

[davkd]

the legal case was based on reasonable notice. FiT wasn’t stopped it was reduced without notice. Same as this. Reasonable notice would be the lead time of our orders.

Greenpeace is not relevant, they just took the FiT case. Of course they should take it as £50k EV’s are £25k in three years and £15k in 6 years. That’s the whole point of affordability. Ford legal could sight it as precedent.

Also, it’s my dealer who has been pro-active and loaded the car onto the Government portal, so this would suggest it is not Ford’s problem.

It’s the ‘notice period’ which is the issue here. This is what Ford’s will argue against.

All the other issues are red herrings.

 

[portlandg]

Also, it’s my dealer who has been pro-active and loaded the car onto the Government portal, so this would suggest it is not Ford’s problem.

It’s the ‘notice period’ which is the issue here. This is what Ford’s will argue against.

All the other issues are red herrings.

Just as a matter of interest, is your dealer solely Ford or do they sell other makes as well.

 

[Spensaf]

I must be wrong then. Perhaps the cars are on board but will offloaded at one of her next 3 stops for transhipment to a ship that is going to Antwerp. Time will tell.

I found exactly the same information as you. Maybe Ford have comandeered the vessel to assist with the backlog.

As everyone here has felt at the very least, once since the 18th November 2019, We will only know when to expect them once they've actually arrived.

 

[Spensaf]

Quick question, I know its been discussed here in the past but dealer fitted Tow Bars, has anyone actually ordered one yet? If so, could you let me know whether that could be fitted in the PDI process?

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