Why did Ford choose 11kW charging for Level 2?

[dtbaker61]

It doesn't make a huge difference and I have no gripes about charge time, but why did Ford choose 11kW for Level 2 charging? This has been our only EV that has this limit.

- 2021 Tesla Model 3 Performance: 11.5 kW
- 2022 Rivian R1T Adventure quad: 11.5 kW
- 2024 Chevy Equinox 3LT eAWD: 11.5 kW

Seems the Mach-E is the odd man out in this scenario. Did it just come down to a cost/benefit analysis on Ford's part? In house or tier 1 supply chain availability?

Yes, I know it is nitpicky to question a .5kW difference, but I am truly curious.

mostly a difference in what power level you choose to publish:
power out of the wall, thru the charger, or actually into the battery.

secondarily, the OEMs can be slightly more or less aggressive with current parameters... trading safety margin for better 'specs'. Kinda like jiggering with max battery range if you allow the car to run to 0% rather than 5%.

a slower charge is better for batteries, so as long as your L2 finishes 'overnight', slower is better.

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[HuntingPudel]

<SNIP>
the OEMs can be slightly more or less aggressive with current parameters... trading safety margin for better 'specs'. Kinda like jiggering with max battery range if you allow the car to run to 0% rather than 5%.
<SNIP>

I think this is the crux of it (just a guess on my part), as Ford’s been super-conservative on their charging curves. They probably have never changed the AC charging curve, while they’ve changed the DC curve a couple of times. ??

 

[Womps]

You should be very happy with that (with this car). There's piles of us that are lucky to avg over 7kw thanks to something Ford hasn't fixed for us.

You should be very happy with that (with this car). There's piles of us that are lucky to avg over 7kw thanks to something Ford hasn't fixed for us.

Yes, I’m on my 2nd Mach E and 3rd Ford charge cord and have never seen over 7kw. Why is that?

 

[dtbaker61]

Yes, I’m on my 2nd Mach E and 3rd Ford charge cord and have never seen over 7kw. Why is that?

Ford Mobile chargers are limited to 32amps by design (for safety) knowing that home NEMA 14-50 outlets may or may not be 'perfect' it is safer to allow only 32 rather than push to 36 or more as some chargers do.

 

[George Knighton]

This reminds me of when I plugged in my Grizzl-E 40A and looked at FordPass to see it charging in the range of 8.7 kW - 8.9 kW, instead of 9.6 kW.

It's only because of reading here that I learned that this is fine.

 

[Mach-Lee]

Ford Mobile chargers are limited to 32amps by design (for safety) knowing that home NEMA 14-50 outlets may or may not be 'perfect' it is safer to allow only 32 rather than push to 36 or more as some chargers do.

A NEMA 14-50 outlet may be on a 40A breaker (which is legal). The Ford Mobile Charger is set to 32A so it can safely be used on any 14-50 outlet regardless of whether it’s a 40A or 50A circuit. (32A is 80% of 40A.)

 

[Teslaeata]

Yes, I’m on my 2nd Mach E and 3rd Ford charge cord and have never seen over 7kw. Why is that?

I think that’s all you can expect from a single phase charger if you’re charging at home or similar on road.

I have 3-phase at home and when charging at about as full power I can expect at start of charge with c25% SoC the wall box said it was delivering around 11.3kW whilst car said it was taking 10.5kW, so not really sure, or really care, whether it’s 10.5kW, Ford’s 11kW, 11.3kW or even Tesla et al’s 11.5kW as car fully charges overnight so the detail is unimportant to me, at least.

 

[Shayne]

I would be surprised if you're measuring the kW going in. Intelligent chargers show what's sent from the wall, not what the vehicle receives.

It is all about the amps? And the efficiency of the system (charger/vehicle).

L2 charging

240V X 32 AMP = 7.7 Kw, 7.7 Kw x 0.87 efficiency = 6.7 Kw

240V X 40 AMP = 9.6 Kw, 9.6 Kw x 0.87 efficiency = 8.4 Kw

240V X 48 AMP = 11.5 Kw, 11.5 x 0.87 efficiency = 10.0 Kw

To go over 48 amp you would need over a 60 amp breaker. Not the car building code.

Yes, I’m on my 2nd Mach E and 3rd Ford charge cord and have never seen over 7kw. Why is that?

Fords plug in is a 32 amp charger. The hardwired box is 48 amp.

 

[Triggerhappy007]

I think this is the crux of it (just a guess on my part), as Ford’s been super-conservative on their charging curves. They probably have never changed the AC charging curve, while they’ve changed the DC curve a couple of times. ??

The AC charging curve is not conservative at all. It starts to taper at 98-99%.

 

[moethelawn]

Funny you mention this... I have the Tesla Universal Wall Connector and my 23.5 Mach E was pulling in 11.3 kw consistently according to the Tesla app. I ran a bunch of updates in July via FDRS because I was a bit behind from my car sitting on the dealer lot. After my updates, it did drop to pulling 10.8 kw consistently. I do feel an update (guessing OBCC) caused it to pull in a little less. It's still plenty fast for me, but I have noticed a difference.

 

[HuntingPudel]

Yes, I’m on my 2nd Mach E and 3rd Ford charge cord and have never seen over 7kw. Why is that?

The FMC will only work on 240V at 32A (just over 7KW) or on 120V at 12A (just over 1KW). using the 120V pigtail and a custom jury-rigged adapter that for safety reasons should never be used for any other purpose (which in itself makes the adapter unsafe), it can be tricked into 240V at 12A (just under 3KW). That’s it. It doesn’t have any other adjustability. ??

 

[tuminatr]

That's interesting. Is that voltage drop under load? I've been working on fixing my electric clothes dryer recently and tested the outlet and power block on the back of the dryer and consistently measured 245V-246V, albeit not under load.

That's an unloaded circuit that reads 232v The circuit is about 50' and I used 6 AWG wire. Voltage drops are normal. Look at most online wire size calculators they figure in a 3% drop as acceptable

 

[fcubi]

Hi guys!

Not all the power from the charger goes to load the batteries. Some power is needed to cool the batteries and/or the on-board charger. Got to convert from AC to DC.

It is interesting to note that, in AC charging at least, the higher the power, the better efficiency. Seems like it takes roughtly the same amount of power to cool whattever has to be cooled while charging.

I did some checking long ago. If I remember well enough efficiency ranges from 85% at 3,6 kW to 95% or so at 11 kW

 

[dtbaker61]

That's interesting. Is that voltage drop under load? I've been working on fixing my electric clothes dryer recently and tested the outlet and power block on the back of the dryer and consistently measured 245V-246V, albeit not under load.

line voltage distribution requirement for utilities is 240v +/- 5%....

a high of 252v is possible if you live in a neighborhood with lots of daytime solar co-gen coming online from neighbors.

lows of 228v are possible if you have big loads like instant hot water heaters or big well/irrigation pumps running on the line you share between transformers.

The lows are what cause big problems, because the current has to go up to run your loads, which can start tripping breakers and causing motors to overheat.

 

[Teslaeata]

Hi guys!

Not all the power from the charger goes to load the batteries. Some power is needed to cool the batteries and/or the on-board charger. Got to convert from AC to DC.

It is interesting to note that, in AC charging at least, the higher the power, the better efficiency. Seems like it takes roughtly the same amount of power to cool whattever has to be cooled while charging.

I did some checking long ago. If I remember well enough efficiency ranges from 85% at 3,6 kW to 95% or so at 11 kW

Ah, hadn’t thought of that.

Very good point. Well done ?

TBF, don’t really think or care about very much so long as the car keeps working and helps earning me a living until I hear of somebody frothing about something then I wonder why I got sucked in ???

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