Range anxiety after two days of driving

[Shayne]

I've heard this too and it was exactly what you described -- a rumor. Although, wishful thinking may be an even better description.

What I said was it is not a real need or anything to wish for. A heat pump is not the holy grail of EV's

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[engnrng]

I mean... it's physics, not magic. It does. Nobody would do a heat pump if it didn't increase efficiency, they cost more. VW does them, Hyundai/Kia does them, Nissan does them. True controlled tests show the efficiency gain.

I believe that the efficiency gain with heat pump is most evident within a certain range of moderate temperatures. The heat pump systems I have studied, including those for automotive use, include a resistive heating element for ambient temps that are below a number that varies with the design. If the MY heat pump appears to be working well at 0 F, it is most likely that the heat pump is not contributing anything to heating the cabin - it is all resistive heating, which puts the efficiency on par with a car that has no heat pump at all. The difference in energy consumption occurs in higher ambient temps: 40F for example. Every EV I have seen takes less of an energy hit using A/C to lower the cabin temp a certain number of degrees than using resistive heat to raise the cabin temp by the same amount. A heat pump is very similar to A/C in energy consumption for a given temp change. But, still, resistive heating is needed for the extreme low temps currently being experienced in much of the MidWest and NorthEast. Heat pump efficiency and effectiveness goes down as the temp does.

 

[ChasingCoral]

What I said was it is not a real need or anything to wish for. A heat pump is not the holy grail of EV's

Agreed. Especially the most elegant solution from a certain EV builder:
https://electrek.co/2021/01/01/tesla-model-3-y-cars-plagued-heating-issues/

 

[SnBGC]

I still believe that not having the range display will do more to alleviate range anxiety than having it. I drive my BEV today without a range display, I do not want a range display on screen in my new BEV.

I 100% do not share this opinion. I have near zero range anxiety because I see the figure on my display and I am good at comparing numbers to figure out which one is larger. It is much more comforting to know that I have 30 miles of range remaining and my destination is 10 miles away. It would give me anxiety to have to figure out if 18% of range is enough to make it there.

On road trips......I like to look at the mile markers and compare them to the range calculation on the display and then can determine if I am over/under compared to the calculation. That is a very simple thing to do if the figure is provided to me.

I realize for decades that ICE vehicles would usually only show a percentage of a tank of fuel and we all survived but there have been quite a few times where I have come close to running out of fuel or even ran out once or twice. I have NEVER ran out of charge in a BEV and I think it's because I can see the real time range remaining. I think having the range displayed is an evolution compared to how it was done in the past.

 

[SnBGC]

Anxiety Justified? California route one, rear wheel drive, EPA 305 miles. I am a very ‘light footed’ driver. Have not pressed the brake once and over 50 miles of driving.

BTW, regenerative braking better than any discs (gave up 2016 Jag for this)

?
Not sure if this is your first BEV or not but I can remember when I first drove mine. I probably looked at that range display every 10 seconds for the first week or so. After a couple weeks I started to become more comfortable. After a month or so then almost all my anxiety went away. Now I hardly look at that display most days. Just comes in handy when I have a heavy travel day.

On a side note.....
That looks like the FE dash applique on one of your pics. Pretty cool. I didn't realize that came on the CR1 vehicles. Nice.

 

[GoGoGadgetMachE]

Now I hardly look at that display most days.

this feels like another thing in the category of "because there's gas stations everywhere you never think about it"... how often does the average ICE driver look at their fuel gauge? I bet it's not often. I bet a lot don't look until the idiot light comes on. Why worry when you know there's always a gas station close enough?

once the charging infrastructure gets there, it will be the same thing. in the meantime us "early adopters" will just plan for long trips accordingly.

 

[IL_Vet]

Are any of the cold weather range issues happening to someone that has owned a BEV before in cold weather? Or are these a couple of newbies? I'm not trying to throw shade at any new MME owners, just troubleshooting.

I'm not new to the BEV rodeo. Range is reduced, during weather extremes, in BEVs, Hybrids and ICE vehicles. More energy is required to counteract the effects of cold and hot weather.

 

[TrikinCurt]

I just took a 430 mile road trip with 4 people in the car in 15 degree weather with a 15mph wind with snow and icy roads. No anxiety even with the heat on at 68 degrees.

The GOM feels a bit conservative, the mileage that it displays seems like the 'for sure you can get this far' mileage but in reality you can get a bit more. If you set the destination in the navigation and it's within your displayed range circle then you can make it there no problem.

Hey that is 30 degrees warmer . Funny but true, easy to forget just how cold -14 is! I did do the reset EV data and it shows my range WAY higher. It was well under 200 when I got it, so it bumped it up to 240 and now decreasing based on weather.

Makes me wonder if it is basing data off of that or actually checking the battery, I like to think it doesn't say I was on empty based on that data - aka, I actually gained 100 miles in range by pressing reset?

I had three teslas, and I remember you could keep pick which magic way to show your range, and all of them were not close to what you would get. I had the iPace and eTron before this, both of them, what it said was VERY close to what you got. Seems Ford is the same, which is a way better way to drive.

It is still cold out here so I will give it another go! I certainly didn't chime into this topic to make people nervous about range, these are just some realities when it goes from cold to insane cold. Sort of like if you stand outside for a few minutes in this you will likely die. You get used to this stuff

 

[TrikinCurt]

Does EA not have an app that has a real time status of their chargers that can be checked from home to make sure they are online and even if available? Reviews on plugshare? Should be careful/sure about heading into the dark in an EV at those temps. Glad to hear it worked out.

So, sort of embarrassing here. The Ford nav wanted to take me to a different charger. I said to myself, but isn't there in EA in Eau Claire? So I pulled up the EA app which showed it as online and went there.

They were online, but for some reason not with Ford (other EA chargers were, but 60 mules away).

I may have had better luck following ford's advice on chargers, but I would have been at a "technically" slower charger and had to pay.

In the end, I was at a deathly slow charger and had to pay! I have been on enough EV forums to say, getting to a charger and it working, and working at the speed you expect, is FAR from perfect. Heck, almost an exception.

My eTron hit actual 150 charing a few times at the EA charger in MN, but that is only 15 minutes from my house so I do not have to go there too often!

 

[Kamuelaflyer]

That is not true for modern automotive heat pumps.

You're probably going to have to find a good basics article about car heat pumps before people will buy into that. Not that it matters.

 

[Kamuelaflyer]

I 100% do not share this opinion. I have near zero range anxiety because I see the figure on my display and I am good at comparing numbers to figure out which one is larger. It is much more comforting to know that I have 30 miles of range remaining and my destination is 10 miles away. It would give me anxiety to have to figure out if 18% of range is enough to make it there.

On road trips......I like to look at the mile markers and compare them to the range calculation on the display and then can determine if I am over/under compared to the calculation. That is a very simple thing to do if the figure is provided to me.

I realize for decades that ICE vehicles would usually only show a percentage of a tank of fuel and we all survived but there have been quite a few times where I have come close to running out of fuel or even ran out once or twice. I have NEVER ran out of charge in a BEV and I think it's because I can see the real time range remaining. I think having the range displayed is an evolution compared to how it was done in the past.

I agree with you on this one. A future user-configurable option to change the display to show only SOC might be a "nice to have" item in an OTA update though.

 

[agoldman]

Even old hybrids I've had all had range meters in the display and after about 15 years of driving hybrids and Phev's, I can tell you that I have never once looked at the range meter, which is right there, albeit very small compared to the ME. I'm sure now I'll be traumatized by it daily..ha

 

[SnBGC]

I'm not new to the BEV rodeo. Range is reduced, during weather extremes, in BEVs, Hybrids and ICE vehicles. More energy is required to counteract the effects of cold and hot weather.

Yes. However, for those that are new to BEVs....
Cold weather has a MUCH greater affect on range then hot weather. That is one of the things that caught me by surprise when I started driving a BEV. It can be 120 degrees out and the A/C blows ice cold......way better than an ICE vehicle and it doesn't really hurt range that much at all. Maybe 10% or less?

 

[Martin Leventon]

Hi Everyone....I have a couple general responses to all as I am contemplating buying a MME and I have read everything I could find on range testing......I live outside of Philly so that Winter can be a mixed bag.

There is a new video by these guys that test drive cars called "The Smoking Gun". The video showed up maybe 10 days ago. Just google videos for Mustang Mach E range testing. In any event this guy was in California. I am assuming the drive occurred in the last couple of months, perhaps late Fall. He went up the coast from L.A. to Santa Barbara. He put the climate control on at 71 degrees and cruise at 73 mph. He did the 405 and the 101 going up and did more local traffic going home. In any event he got 255 miles of range. I myself am more of a hyper miler from my VW TDI days so I probably would have done like 66 or 67 mph and gotten the 270.

The other point I wanted to make was he had been driving the car locally for like 6 days and this was his first road trip so when he started it said 232 miles of range. After like 45 minutes of driving his estimated range went up to close to 270 miles. Initially he was getting like 8 miles of range for every 10 miles driven but it did start to change once he was on the road for a while. Its also funny how I decided against the Kona EV because there was no heat pump on US versions and there was a heat pump on Canda built cars. Finally of note is that Edmunds got 304 miles of range vs. Tesla Model Y with 263 miles on their range test.

Alex on Autos who is a very legit tester on one short test in flat driving got almost 3.9 kWh on the MME but of course it was California on a nice weather day. As Tesla added range with over the air updates perhaps Ford will do the same in the future.

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