Ground Up or Down for Nema Plug 14-15 Installation?

[barryvo]

I appreciate all the replies. It is fun learning about the EV process.

Sponsored

 

[machefan]

Right, but the screw attachments to the outlet are at the top and bottom and studs run vertical, so unless you go out of your way to mount the box sideways the choice is top or bottom.

exactly, but you beat me to it.

Only one correct way to mount a box with the screws in the right spots.

 

[BMT1071]

exactly, but you beat me to it.

Only one correct way to mount a box with the screws in the right spots.

Unless it's an old work box. Than you can do what you want. ??

 

[phidauex]

Unless it's an old work box. Than you can do what you want. ??

Exactly, just gotta get creative! Handy boxes can be back mounted too, so that would work. Likewise masonry construction could be handled either way. On traditional new work you could just run a brace horizontally between the studs.

Of course I was also being a bit cheeky, there are probably a few situations where a sideways mount would be convenient, but most people will just be mounting ground up or down depending on their particular evse.

 

[GW Shark]

Great information here. Mine will be an outside mount away from any structure. I'm planning on placing a couple of 4x4 posts in the ground and mount a 2ft x 2 ft piece of plywood between them (framed with 2x4's). Wire conduit will run underground (18" depth) for either 15 or 50 feet (depends on the price quote from my electrician) and up the side of a 4x4. Will have plug mounted in a waterproof box.

 

[BMT1071]

Great information here. Mine will be an outside mount away from any structure. I'm planning on placing a couple of 4x4 posts in the ground and mount a 2ft x 2 ft piece of plywood between them (framed with 2x4's). Wire conduit will run underground (18" depth) for either 15 or 50 feet (depends on the price quote from my electrician) and up the side of a 4x4. Will have plug mounted in a waterproof box.

I would hardwire the EVSE in that situation.

 

[Mach-Tony]

I would go ground up because it seems like most of the male plugs are like that. I did mine that was so I could also use it with my RV. Yeah, it has a 180 degree bend when the box is plugged into it from the side, but it also allows for the outdoor box to be waterproof.

 

[barryvo]

I just saw a sideways mount on a Grizzle E video demonstration.

 

[GW Shark]

I would hardwire the EVSE in that situation.

good point. Will work with my electrician on that one. I believe Grizzl-e allows for the plug to be removed and hard wired. They also have refurbs with the 3 year warranty.

 

[timbop]

Exactly, just gotta get creative! Handy boxes can be back mounted too, so that would work. Likewise masonry construction could be handled either way. On traditional new work you could just run a brace horizontally between the studs.

Of course I was also being a bit cheeky, there are probably a few situations where a sideways mount would be convenient, but most people will just be mounting ground up or down depending on their particular evse.

Yes, of course a surface mount can be any orientation, but it is atypical to add a horizontal brace for an in-wall box installation. Even for a surface mount the stud is still vertical, so given that the lead is generally pretty short and thick it is easiest to put the box on the same stud as the EVSE itself. The best way to do that is in a vertical installation.

The question being asked was why the manufacturers only have the ground up or down, and the reason is that it makes the most sense for in-wall box installation.

I just saw a sideways mount on a Grizzle E video demonstration.

Sure, but see above.

 

[RetiredDP]

My electrician is asking whether to install the nema 14-50 with the ground up or down.

We plan on using the Ford Mobile Charger at first but may upgrade to a ChargePoint or WallBox in the future.

Any recommendations for up or down?

I had my EVSE (Alpha charger) installed at a good height for looking at the display screen (5'6"), and so that the loops of the charge cable would be nice and big (less coiling). The power cable coming out of the bottom of the EVSE is very short-and-stiff (12"). The ground was at the top, when hanging straight down, so I had the electrician put the ground at the top, with the 240v outlet box 12" below the EVSE. Do what works for your particular EVSE...

 

[Maquis]

The ground should always be up. Which is counter intuitive because most house plugs have the ground hole down and that is how we are used to seeing them. Maybe because it makes a happy face that way. As my electrical engineering brother explained to me many years ago, the ground should always be up. Two main reasons: #1. The ground is always slightly longer so that it enters and makes contact with the receiver plug circuit first. If the plug is mounted lower to the ground, say less than 3’ from the ground, humans have a tendency to not bend over so when you plug in an appliance, you are actually canting the male plug and negating the extended ground feature if the “positive” terminals are on top. #2. Which is especially important in a garage, if the plug comes out of the wall receptacle slightly and something were to slide down the wall and make contact, you want the ground lug to prevent that item from arcing the power leads. Which it would do if it were on top and gravity stays the way it is.

Now, if your mount your plug at eye level, these concerns are lessened, but #2 is always a concern (gravity still).

I run a manufacturing plant and ALL plugs are installed with the ground up, even in the offices. Which is why all plugs that I have installed at my house are also that way.

Actually the industry is split over this. Both side are passionate about their belief. So much so that some electrician’s forums (Mike Holt, for example) ban all discussion of the topic because it always ends up in a shouting match!

 

[Mach-Lee]

Typically ground goes up on most NEMA receptacles unless they are installed in a special location such as near the floor where the cord would have to go up from the outlet instead of down. If you look at most non-EVSE cords, the wire goes away from the ground pin. In RV parks all the 14-50 outlets will have ground up because that's how the cords are designed.

I've had to rotate numerous 14-30 and 14-50 receptacles because the electricians put the ground down like a regular 15A outlet. The cord was pointing up and puts stress on the receptacle. I honestly think it's because electricians do ground down for the small ones, so they like to do the big ones the same without thinking about it more. Electricians almost never plug in dryers and ranges (the appliance installers do that) so a lot of them have no idea they're doing it wrong. The ones that install appliances do it right.

EVSE's are sort of special because they are typically designed to be mounted above the receptacle, so the cord will go up instead of down like most equipment. This is why most good designs such as the ChargePoint have a reversed plug where the cord goes the same direction as the ground prong.

Others such as Grizzl-E use a normal-spec cord so this happens:

The receptacle is the same orientation in both cases. I don't care for the resulting sharp bend (cords have minimum bending radius specifications) and torque on the receptacle. In this specific case the receptacle should have been rotated ground down so the cord could go straight up to the EVSE (sorry sockmeister).

So the tldr answer is the receptacle orientation depends on the specific EVSE cord and mounting location you're going to use. Ground up is more common and is the correct way for the ChargePoint, the Ford Mobile Charger, and most other appliance/RV cords. Ground down may be required if mounting the EVSE above the receptacle if it does not have a reversed cord such as the Grizzl-E.

A smart electrician will ask to see the cord before installing the outlet so the orientation will be correct. If you watch Tom Moloughney's State of Charge, you'll notice he has outlets in both orientations on his charger wall to work with different chargers.

 

[Stang68]

Typically ground goes up on most NEMA receptacles unless they are installed in a special location such as near the floor where the cord would have to go up from the outlet instead of down. If you look at most non-EVSE cords, the wire goes away from the ground pin. In RV parks all the 14-50 outlets will have ground up because that's how the cords are designed.

I've had to rotate numerous 14-30 and 14-50 receptacles because the electricians put the ground down like a regular 15A outlet. The cord was pointing up and puts stress on the receptacle. I honestly think it's because electricians do ground down for the small ones, so they like to do the big ones the same without thinking about it more. Electricians almost never plug in dryers and ranges (the appliance installers do that) so a lot of them have no idea they're doing it wrong. The ones that install appliances do it right.

EVSE's are sort of special because they are typically designed to be mounted above the receptacle, so the cord will go up instead of down like most equipment. This is why most good designs such as the ChargePoint have a reversed plug where the cord goes the same direction as the ground prong.

Others such as Grizzl-E use a normal-spec cord so this happens:

The receptacle is the same orientation in both cases. I don't care for the resulting sharp bend (cords have minimum bending radius specifications) and torque on the receptacle. In this specific case the receptacle should have been rotated ground down so the cord could go straight up to the EVSE (sorry sockmeister).

So the tldr answer is the receptacle orientation depends on the specific EVSE cord and mounting location you're going to use. Ground up is more common and is the correct way for the ChargePoint, the Ford Mobile Charger, and most other appliance/RV cords. Ground down may be required if mounting the EVSE above the receptacle if it does not have a reversed cord such as the Grizzl-E.

A smart electrician will ask to see the cord before installing the outlet so the orientation will be correct. If you watch Tom Moloughney's State of Charge, you'll notice he has outlets in both orientations on his charger wall to work with different chargers.

I just bought the Grizzl-e and will have to do what you did with yours, turn the cord/plug upside down. Not thrilled about that. Called Grizzl-e and they actually suggested mounting the actual box upside down, but then that would lead to some tension on the cord with the charging handle. So not entirely sure what to do (other than having my electrician flip the outlet for me so the ground is on the bottom).

Have you seen any negative effects of having the Grizzl-e cord twisted like that?

 

[Mach-Lee]

I just bought the Grizzl-e and will have to do what you did with yours, turn the cord/plug upside down. Not thrilled about that. Called Grizzl-e and they actually suggested mounting the actual box upside down, but then that would lead to some tension on the cord with the charging handle. So not entirely sure what to do (other than having my electrician flip the outlet for me so the ground is on the bottom).

Have you seen any negative effects of having the Grizzl-e cord twisted like that?

FYI that is not my picture, I have a ChargePoint. I haven't heard of problems after people bend the Grizzl-E cord like that, but I don't like it. I've seen people mount them upside down too, and I don't like that either. Either way you're putting stress on a cord. To me it's worth the extra 10 minutes to flip the outlet, but if that involves an electrician that's up to you to decide if it's worth the cost.

Sponsored