No Tax Credit for my loaded GTPE?

[ChasingCoral]

Read the potential new law on EV Tax Credits sponsored by Michigan Senators and it currently looks like the “SUV” category has a top end of $69,000. My 2021 GTPE comes in at $69,840 with Rapid Red, Pano, Camera and Protection Kit. BTW, Tesla Y comes in under 69. What now?

The new law will probably not take effect until 2022.

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[timbop]

Again, you’re missing the point.

If the goal is to get EVERYONE to buy a BEV, you need incentives for EVERYONE.

Not everyone looks at cars like appliances.

For example, me. I wouldn’t have bought a GT. Without the mag ride and good looking wheels, I have zero interest in this car.

And if the GTPE cost another $7,500 more, it’s no longer competitive at this price point.

Sign me up for an X3M or a GLC63. The loser is Mother Earth.

Not sure what a $300,000 car has to do with the discussion of a $70k car. But even if a $300k BEV existed, if you think “rich people” don’t care about saving money on taxes, you don’t know very many rich people.

The whole point is to convince people to buy a BEV……. who would have bought an ICE instead. And $7,500 (or $12k) does a great job of convincing people.

Here's the thing: we do need everyone to be buying BEV's, but there is also a very finite pool of money that can be used to encourage that to happen. That means if you compel those that CAN swing the transition without the government check to do so, more goes toward those who aren't as fortunate. As an upper middle class individual, that $160 saved over say 48 months probably won't change life very much at all. For Middle and lower income individuals it can. Keep in mind it's those people who are far more likely to continue driving older and less well maintained ICE cars because putting food on the table and keeping the heat on is a higher priority.

I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that you actually CAN still afford the GTPE without the incentive, it's just a case of you choosing not to because you feel "cheated". Rather than "having" to choose the ICE X3M or GLC63, you could alternatively get a slightly less capable BEV for the same money as the GTPE AND do yourself and your children a service. I submit that it is short sighted and indeed immature of you to insist on buying a car you know will contribute more problems to your progeny simply because "the douchebags" wouldn't give you the deal on the slightly better BEV.

In point of fact I suggest that choosing to buy an ICE out of spite is far more of a "douchebag move" than the politicians putting a cap on eligibility.

 

[ChasingCoral]

If you want the expanded BEV tax credit, contact your senators and representatives to let them know it.

 

[ChuckA]

Right, still about $500 short ?

I would think accessories aren’t considered part of the “car cost”. That would also eliminate paperwork charges, registration fees. Also, is sales tax included? x-plan a possibility?

 

[Mach1E]

Here's the thing: we do need everyone to be buying BEV's, but there is also a very finite pool of money that can be used to encourage that to happen. That means if you compel those that CAN swing the transition without the government check to do so, more goes toward those who aren't as fortunate. As an upper middle class individual, that $160 saved over say 48 months probably won't change life very much at all. For Middle and lower income individuals it can. Keep in mind it's those people who are far more likely to continue driving older and less well maintained ICE cars because putting food on the table and keeping the heat on is a higher priority.

I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that you actually CAN still afford the GTPE without the incentive, it's just a case of you choosing not to because you feel "cheated". Rather than "having" to choose the ICE X3M or GLC63, you could alternatively get a slightly less capable BEV for the same money as the GTPE AND do yourself and your children a service. I submit that it is short sighted and indeed immature of you to insist on buying a car you know will contribute more problems to your progeny simply because "the douchebags" wouldn't give you the deal on the slightly better BEV.

In point of fact I suggest that choosing to buy an ICE out of spite is far more of a "douchebag move" than the politicians putting a cap on eligibility.

Lol, this is absurd.

You are talking in circles and making straw man arguments.

I wouldn’t buy an X3M out of spite. I would consider it if it’s the best vehicle for the money.

That’s how most people pick which car to buy.

The people who care more about the environment than the price of a car aren’t the one’s who need convincing or incentives to buy a BEV.

Bottom line? We don’t need to convince environmentalists to save the environment, we need to convince EVERYONE to, and that’s the point of a tax incentive.

The government has decided it’s worth $7500 to get an ICE off the road. Now when we start picking and choosing who gets the $7500 (US made, union, income based, MSRP), it’s no longer about the environment, it’s about some other agenda.

And those restrictions actually result in less BEV sales, which is counterproductive to the environmental cause.

 

[malthusunc]

I had never really considered an EV. I would probably not have considered the Mach-E without the $7,500 tax credit. Mentally, that brought it down to be comparable with the other (ICE) vehicles I was considering.

 

[RetiredDP]

Read the potential new law on EV Tax Credits sponsored by Michigan Senators and it currently looks like the “SUV” category has a top end of $69,000. My 2021 GTPE comes in at $69,840 with Rapid Red, Pano, Camera and Protection Kit. BTW, Tesla Y comes in under 69. What now?

In California, the price limit cutoff of $60,000 applies to the msrp of the car, BEFORE options are added. That's why Ford dropped the price on the GT from $61,200 to $59,900. And the GTPE is an options package, not a new Model. Since the $60k limit is before options are added, I got the full rebate from California for my GTPE.

 

[engnrng]

Agree, categories and limits, WTF? these consultants for Congress over engineer. Plus there is a Union adder of 4,500. MME are built in a non-union plant in Mexico by a UAW Auto Maker Ford. Don’t know what I would cut (don’t want to) and a 2022 is 1000 higher for same config.

The Mexico plant is unionized, but not UAW. Would qualify for the $4500 unless it must be an American Union.

 

[amtrucker22]

In California, the price limit cutoff of $60,000 applies to the msrp of the car, BEFORE options are added. That's why Ford dropped the price on the GT from $61,200 to $59,900. And the GTPE is an options package, not a new Model. Since the $60k limit is before options are added, I got the full rebate from California for my GTPE.

I hope you are right but I don't think the current incentive has a cap on prices. Looking over the build sheet there are two MSRPs. One is for Base MSRP and the other is Total MSRP. Fingers crossed that they are looking at the Base MSRP.

 

[jimitoast]

I can only speak about what I will do. I ordered a GT-PE in July.

We need a third car now that my daughter is driving. My wife ad I have owned ONLY Acuras and Hondas for 25 years. We buy reliable cars that handle well. I keep cars for a long time. If this is a 10 year keeper, I wanted it to be an EV. Honda/Acura doesn't have an EV for me so I looked elsewhere. The reliability sucks on all of them (compared to what I am used to with Acura ICE). That made me revert to looking at Acura ICE cars. Apparently, Acura quality/reliability has also tanked in the last 10 years, leaving me in a pickle.

I would ordinarily never spend this much money on a car. I am barely able to justify the ~$62K that the GT-PE will cost after receiving the $7500 credit. I have hated Ford my whole life after having a very very bad experience my first car (Ford Tempo). I told myself I would never buy another Ford (or American car for that matter). My Acura TL SHAWD (with active dampers) drives great and I have had zero problems with it. It is also reasonably quick for its vintage. Believe it or not, you can fairly easily get the back end to walk out. I don't like SUV's because they don't handle like good sedans (my wife's MDX SHAWD has a good rep for handling but I think it sucks). The GT-PE apparently DOES handle like a sports sedan (minus being a little ... ahem... portly) so I was willing to give it a chance. After doing some research, I was excited enough about the GT-PE to give FORD a chance.

If I can't somehow get this credit:

- I will not buy an EV (there is no acceptable alternative for me)
- I will buy an ICE
- I will not buy a Ford (and probably never will because Acura/Honda will have something great by the time that I am ready for a replacement)

Though the decision is really simple for me, I will be deeply disappointed and super pissed at our lawmakers. I have to think that I am not alone on at least some of these points.

 

[tuminatr]

I don't know the answer to your question, but a question of my own: Why do lawmakers feel they need to put a price limit on a car when it comes to a tax credit? I just don't get it. Isn't the incentive to get you to buy an EV rather than an ICE car? Who cares how much it costs.

I will try to stay politically neutral but there is a growing appetite in this country to tax the rich and a tax credit on an expensive car seems like an incentive for the wealthy to some. To me, that shows people don't understand that the tax credits aren't for consumers they are actually an incentive for the manufactures to be more profitable on emerging technology. Most EV's get no rebates from the manufacture and people pay sticker = the manufacture has a higher profit margin.

 

[kennethjk]

I will try to stay politically neutral but there is a growing appetite in this country to tax the rich and a tax credit on an expensive car seems like an incentive for the wealthy to some. To me, that shows people don't understand that the tax credits aren't for consumers they are actually an incentive for the manufactures to be more profitable on emerging technology. Most EV's get no rebates from the manufacture and people pay sticker = the manufacture has a higher profit margin.

I guess that depends on the profit margin of EV cars compared to ICE cars. I don’t know the answer. do manufacturers and dealers have a lower margin on these cars?

the government for years has decided to give tax incentives to taxpayers for certain industries or products Thru depreciarion or ITC’s, (investment tax credits)

also tax rates have been lower for years. When I first got out of school many years ago, interest and dividends were taxed at 70% and 90% before that and earned income such as salary was taxed at a max of 50% , and all of that was federal only.

 

[timbop]

- I will not buy an EV (there is no acceptable alternative for me)

Really? The regular Mach-E GT is UNACCEPTABLE?

I would think contributing to shifting climate patterns such that sustained droughts in once arable land, severe tidal flooding, and millions of displaced persons would be unacceptable. I guess all that matters is a few bucks in your pocket.

It's also apparent that the government incentives work because without them you have no interest in a BEV

 

[jimitoast]

Without the magnaride suspension, the handling isn't there for me (it's a step down from what I drive now).

Climate instability is definitely a problem. 100% agree. That's one element to the decision (an important one). It's a balancing act. I wish I didn't need a car now but I do. I am not thrilled about any of my options but it is what it is and the used car market is problematic (that was my first choice).

Yes! Incentives are necessary. Completely agree. Even if they are incentives that benefit "the rich", it seems to me that helps the industry mature and drive down costs so that they can offer more affordable EV's in the future. I agree that the prices need to come down but they can't expect automakers to suddenly design new models that are less costly - it takes years for something like that to play out. Why not phase the caps in? Then automakers would "see the writing on the wall" and plan to reach those targets on a realistic timeframe. I am NOT an expert but that's how I have been seeing this.

 

[Mach1E]

Really? The regular Mach-E GT is UNACCEPTABLE?

I would think contributing to shifting climate patterns such that sustained droughts in once arable land, severe tidal flooding, and millions of displaced persons would be unacceptable. I guess all that matters is a few bucks in your pocket.

It's also apparent that the government incentives work because without them you have no interest in a BEV

You seem to suggest that buying a car is a simple decision based on what is best for the environment.

If that were the case, we all would ride bicycles instead.

You are making the wrong “sales pitch.”

Ford gets it. If you notice, the advertisements for the Mach E GT don’t mention climate change.

They mention “0-60 3.5 seconds.”

Why? Because they are trying to CONVERT people from driving an ICE to a BEV who normally wouldn’t have considered one.

And you aren’t going to do that with guilt and fear mongering. You’re going to do it by building a quality performance car and by giving people tax incentives.

Just look at the “last car” of the GT and GTPE drivers. Sooooo many people who have fuel economy in the “teens.”

Converting people like myself (Chevy Ss got 13 mpg avg in the city) is a bigger win for the environment than some of the people who bought the base Mach E and came from a Prius or other efficient vehicle.

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