November 3rd 2021 Revised Tax incentives for EVs from House of Reps.

[Maquis]

I think the bottom line is that the bill currently reads:

‘‘(3) REGULATIONS AND GUIDANCE.—For purposes
of this subsection, the Secretary shall prescribe
such regulations or other guidance as the
Secretary determines necessary or appropriate for
determining vehicle classifications using criteria similar to
that employed by the Environmental Protection
Agency and the Department of the Energy to determine
size and class of vehicles.’’

The classification data I find online from these two agencies all list the 2021 MME as a car, not an SUV.

The bill could change (or not pass at all) and/or the MME could be reclassified for 2022. It's all speculation at this point.

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[ARK]

An interesting thought about SUVs-

Of this bill is about saving the environment, convincing people to buy a BEV SUV vs an ICE probably does more than going from a car to a BEV car.

Counterargument- if it’s about saving the environment and convincing people to make the switch, what difference does the MSRP make? Shouldnt we try to incentivize everyone?

If anything, the more expensive an ICE is, typically the worse it is for the environment.

Just food for thought.

Logically, you are correct there. The benefits to the environment are much greater if a high income earner switches their Porsche 911 for a Porsche Taycan for their daily commute, as opposed to someone of medium income switching from a RAV 4 Hybrid to a RAV 4 Prime (lets assume they can do their commute all electric).

But I think it’s more than that, the idea also is if you are someone who can’t afford more than say $25,000 of car, the electric versions of existing vehicles are simply out of reach based on sticker price, so a subsidy is needed to help people in this circumstance who are already driving economy cars and can’t really go any further downmarket.

This bill is poorly written for many reasons. It seems a bit much to implement a $12,500 BEV subsidy in 2022, the price differential is no longer that much between BEV and ICE, and this amount will stay in effect for 10 years, not accounting for the continuing drop in battery prices at all.

 

[Mach1E]

Logically, you are correct there. The benefits to the environment are much greater if a high income earner switches their Porsche 911 for a Porsche Taycan for their daily commute, as opposed to someone of medium income switching from a RAV 4 Hybrid to a RAV 4 Prime (lets assume they can do their commute all electric).

But I think it’s more than that, the idea also is if you are someone who can’t afford more than say $25,000 of car, the electric versions of existing vehicles are simply out of reach based on sticker price, so a subsidy is needed to help people in this circumstance who are already driving economy cars and can’t really go any further downmarket.

This bill is poorly written for many reasons. It seems a bit much to implement a $12,500 BEV subsidy in 2022, the price differential is no longer that much between BEV and ICE, and this amount will stay in effect for 10 years, not accounting for the continuing drop in battery prices at all.

I don’t think it’s an either/or for who gets the incentives, it should be a both.

The planet doesn’t care where the car is built, if a union built it, how much it costs nor the income of who buys it. Politics isn’t so simple though and politicians care about all of those things.

 

[Baseball1516]

Can anyone confirm if you actually need a high enough tax liability to derive the full benefit from the newly proposed changes?

I have heard many comments that you will still need to have at least 7500 in tax liability but I’ve also heard other comments that you will get the full benefit as long as you do not surpass the upper limits of the income limitation?

My mother has limited income and I’m trying to find out if she can take advantage of the newly proposed legislation thank you

 

[Draconfier]

Can anyone confirm if you actually need a high enough tax liability to derive the full benefit from the newly proposed changes?

I have heard many comments that you will still need to have at least 7500 in tax liability but I’ve also heard other comments that you will get the full benefit as long as you do not surpass the upper limits of the income limitation?

My mother has limited income and I’m trying to find out if she can take advantage of the newly proposed legislation thank you

If/when the current proposed Bill from the House is ratified in its current format from the Senate then you would need to look at her taxes from last year for her Modified Adjusted Gross Income see below:

As long as her MAGI is below the income thresholds listed per classification she would get the full $7500.

If the current law stays in place then her tax liability must be equal to or exceed $7500 to receive that back as a credit.

 

[seattledan206]

Kind of a bummer my order for a Premium AWD extended range MSRP is $55,800. I hope Ford realizes that I ordered this on 6/6/21 and expected a 2021 delivery and helps me out so I don't lose the amount of the existing $7500 tax credit.

 

[ARK]

Kind of a bummer my order for a Premium AWD extended range MSRP is $55,800. I hope Ford realizes that I ordered this on 6/6/21 and expected a 2021 delivery and helps me out so I don't lose the amount of the existing $7500 tax credit.

I think it’s a reasonable bet that in the event of catastrophe with this whole vehicle classification business, Ford would probably throw a bone to existing orders if they got the short end of the stick.

 

[kennethjk]

Time for Michigan Congress people to get involved

I am sure Ford will fight to get MNE classified as SUV

 

[Ming]

I see. So regardless of when the bill is passed (assuming prior to Dec 2022), the 1-car limit rule will apply retroactively to the entire 2022 tax year.

Thanks.

please don't draw ANY conclusion. this bill has been changing daily, and no one knows what's the final version would be, let alone it may not even pass. further, I don't think anyone posting in this thread is a lawyer.

 

[RedStallion]

The Proposed bill extends the EV credit system for another 10 years and eliminates the 200,000 vehicle restriction.

So that's why Pelosi's husband was buying Tesla calls.

 

[ARK]

So that's why Pelosi's husband was buying Tesla calls.

Well, the Democrats have been pretty open about their desire to expand the EV tax credit since winning the election last year.

It's not just investors who have paid attention, Tesla itself has too. Under the current proposal, many Teslas would qualify for $8,000 in tax credits ($7,500 for the car + $500 for American made battery). Take the Model Y LR for example - at its low, this vehicle started at $48,990 this year. It presently starts at $56,990 after a series of price hikes. That's a difference of - you guessed it - $8,000.

 

[Sealevel]

This is good news for some, but ultimately many people aren’t even going to be able to take advantage of the full $7,500 because their tax liability isn’t that high. I’ll be getting far less it seems. It’s unfortunate how many people think the government is just writing them a $7,500 check when tax time comes.

I expect the government to write me a check. I also understand that I have put the $ 7,500 into the government's checking account.

 

[Eraser]

I haven't completely worked out how the $7500 incentive works, or if I'll get it. Now I'm even more confused! I guess I need to think about it being a huge "icing on the cake" scenario. I've put in an order for an awesome car. If I get an incentive, great!

I'm not holding my breath on any proposed legislation. I assume things will continue as they are until something actually changes. As we all should be well aware, the government moves very slow regardless of how it may seem on the surface.

I broke down the current EV Tax Credit in this post. This might be helpful if you want to know how to tackle this situation with how it stands today, instead of how it might (or might not) in the future.

 

[Sealevel]

This bill is hanging by a tread in Congress. There's a real good chance that it does not get passed. And that's unfortunate. BEVs are a political issue along with global warming. It's no longer whether it's good policy or not, it depends on what political party is in control. There's no doubt BEVs will eventually get there, but not in the time frame that any of us want.

Voice your opinion to both Senators and the House Rep who are in Congress to represent YOU. And don't forget to mention that you will factor their representation into your vote.

 

[Sealevel]

I haven't completely worked out how the $7500 incentive works, or if I'll get it. Now I'm even more confused! I guess I need to think about it being a huge "icing on the cake" scenario. I've put in an order for an awesome car. If I get an incentive, great!

I like the way you think - mostly because I also think that way and have ordered the same model! I chose the grey interior over the black, what did you choose?

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