November 3rd 2021 Revised Tax incentives for EVs from House of Reps.

[ChuckA]

I always love when people say they want everything made in the U.S. Then, when faced with a buying decision, choosing between near identical products, one made in the U.S. (and significantly more expensive), one made outside the U.S., they pick the non-U.S.-made product overwhelmingly.

Decades ago my father in-law gave me crap for having a Japanese-made vehicle. He had nice big Toshiba TV in his house, among other things.

I worked for a company many years ago, and we produced products in China. In a focus group, when asked the direct question, people complained about this and said the particular product, which also embodied a US symbol on it (think U.S. Flag), should be made in the U.S. They were told the product, if made in the U.S., would cost 3.5 times as much. Every single one of them backed down and said they would still buy the non-U.S. made product.

Products are sourced out of the country for many reasons, cost being a big one. Even if production moves to the U.S., many raw materials are produced outside the U.S.

If you want all U.S. made products, practice what you preach and tell every company you buy from, or don't buy from, of your decision with your wallet.

Oh, by the way, no more smartphones.

I buy USA made were available. My Honda Accord Hybrid was made in Ohio. Of course some parts are imported. My solar is LG panels which I know are imported. No installer in CT uses USA made panels. I’m just saying that we should not shift production out of USA due to lower labor costs. There’s got to be major profit in a $1200 smartphone. They could be assembled in USA.

Sponsored

 

[RickMachE]

I buy USA made were available. My Honda Accord Hybrid was made in Ohio. Of course some parts are imported. My solar is LG panels which I know are imported. No installer in CT uses USA made panels. I’m just saying that we should not shift production out of USA due to lower labor costs. There’s got to be major profit in a $1200 smartphone. They could be assembled in USA.

If you're faced with buying a smartphone in the US, that's say $1,900 instead of $1,200, are you going to buy the more expensive one?

Or, are you saying that Apple should eat it, and you're fine with your retirement portfolio having significantly lower return on investment when Apple can't hit the numbers it used to?

And for those that don't own Apple as a stock, remember that it's part of the S&P 500, and various other indices. You own it.

 

[generaltso]

I’m just saying that we should not shift production out of USA due to lower labor costs. There’s got to be major profit in a $1200 smartphone. They could be assembled in USA.

The Foxconn factory in Zhengzhou, China that assembles half of the world's iPhones employs about 350,000 workers. There's not a city in the US that could provide that kind of workforce.

 

[Ming]

The way the bill is currently written, the IRS has no say in how vehicles are classified.

not really. the current bill says the secretary [of treasury dept] decides in a similar way as EPA does... this pretty much means IRS makes final decision.

 

[Mach1E]

The Foxconn factory in Zhengzhou, China that assembles half of the world's iPhones employs about 350,000 workers. There's not a city in the US that could provide that kind of workforce.

You sure? We have tons of unemployed children around here.

 

[Orangefirefish]

I'd just like to point out again that despite the MME being advertised as an SUV, I'm pretty sure the government considers it a car (see: fueleconomy.gov go to Specs and scroll to EPA class size. it's a small station wagon which is classed as a car). So people with AWD and ER battery could end up missing out on this credit if I'm reading everything correctly. Not to mention GTs.

Kind of arbitrary right? Like they pulled numbers out of the air. Don’t think it passes the upper chamber anyway so potential moot point.

 

[Orangefirefish]

Or convert IRA’s to a Roth IRA to increase the tax liability. You can do multiple Roth IRA conversions in a year (by 12/31). To get a $4500 tax liability if your federal effective tax is 22%, it will take approximately a $20,500 Roth IRA conversion to increase your tax liability by $4500. Consult with your tax advisor.

Funny how after-tax conversions managed to survive the bill, better do it now in case something changes.

They have orders booked out six plus months from now. They have Hertz wanting 100,000 cars. They have far more demand than production capacity. Simple economics is to raise prices. They'll lose some demand, but so long as the demand remains above capacity, they're not giving up sales and they're increasing margin. They'd be silly not to raise prices.

It will be interesting to see how ramping up Texas and Germany production factors in. Although I wouldn't be surprised to see Fremont shutdown to re-tool once Texas is fully up.

As for new Fed tax credits, be careful what you wish for. There's so much other crap buried in that bill that no one (not even those voting on it) have had a chance to read. Just because the EV credits are something that appeals to many here, doesn't mean that the bill overall is a good thing to pass. All of us need to look beyond our one or two pet desires and look at the greater good/bad of the entire package. These enormous all encompassing bills are always bad ideas regardless of which party concocts them. Congress should be splitting things up rather than using popular nuggets as cover to pass pork, extreme political agendas and other things that would never have a chance on their own merits.

Yeah. Don’t see why a company that is supply constrained needs any taxpayer funded incentive to sell more vehicles.

 

[Rt1AWD]

The way the bill is currently written, the IRS has no say in how vehicles are classified.

Then whoever is responsible for that will reclassify this way or another....... I think they will do it with the first petition....... It just doesn't make sense to try to fight that.

 

[Rt1AWD]

Like they pulled numbers out of the air. Don’t think it passes the upper chamber anyway so potential moot point.

I believe that too. Progressives blackmailed moderates, and they lost..... now they have to move aside

 

[ab13]

If you want all U.S. made products, practice what you preach and tell every company you buy from, or don't buy from, of your decision with your wallet.

Oh, by the way, no more smartphones.

There is one, but it is $1999. Its surprising how many small brands there are that make very niche phones, but not sure how long any will last.
https://puri.sm/products/librem-5-usa/

We have some of the last assembled in USA Motorola smartphones (still one of my favorite in design and size), but since more people bought something else they closed the factory and even the company was sold.

 

[leeman]

I'd just like to point out again that despite the MME being advertised as an SUV, I'm pretty sure the government considers it a car (see: fueleconomy.gov go to Specs and scroll to EPA class size. it's a small station wagon which is classed as a car). So people with AWD and ER battery could end up missing out on this credit if I'm reading everything correctly. Not to mention GTs.

Only enough State Farm thinks mine is a two-door Mustang.

 

[ab13]

I was thinking the same thing.

Wonder if Ford ends up tweaking the price slightly to keep the most popular option just under the $55,000 to be able to us the credit as a selling feature. Trade a bit of margin to get the higher volume that the credit will bring them.

Tesla has changed pricing to meet, what I recall, were Canada incentives. They sold the car at a lower price with a lower range. Then you bought more range after the fact. I would expect they might do it again if $55k is the limit for sedans. Not sure Ford would do anything like this, complicates some various issues.

 

[ChuckA]

Funny how after-tax conversions managed to survive the bill, better do it now in case something changes.

Yeah. Don’t see why a company that is supply constrained needs any taxpayer funded incentive to sell more vehicles.

Better to invest in or subsidize kWh in a charging infrastructure. Some people delay EV purchases for lack of charging, I did. BTW, after tax conversions will some day be closed as it is a legal loophole..

 

[ChuckA]

The Foxconn factory in Zhengzhou, China that assembles half of the world's iPhones employs about 350,000 workers. There's not a city in the US that could provide that kind of workforce.

What ever happened to the Foxconn factory that was supposed to be built in USA?

 

[generaltso]

What ever happened to the Foxconn factory that was supposed to be built in USA?

This one?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foxconn_in_Wisconsin

Sponsored