Estimated miles and actual miles very low now

[dbsb3233]

You really think everyone knows what they are buying when they purchase car?

According to this survey, 66% think EV's have gas engines.....

https://www.carscoops.com/2021/11/66-of-consumers-think-electric-vehicles-have-a-gas-engine/

Well actually, many EVs do (depending on who's using the term). Inconsistency in the terminology. Half the time "EV" is used to include hybrids, while the other half of the time it refers to 100% electric only.

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[breeves002]

I don't like moving as much when it is cold either

I have seen 18 KWh/100 Km in the summer seen 31 KWh/km @ -15 oC. We just need to be able to charge the 88 KWh to 100% so it is useable as right now all we have is 70 KWh useable of our 100 KWh packs. Thought fore sure this would be fixed before the snow flies again but appear it is not. Our vehicles have plenty of battery we just can not use it. When you start multiplying your range by 0.6 cold weather has an impact.

One of the winter hints is not to use Hvac when you are DCFC. Go from 80 to 90% in -20 oC and sit there for over an hour with no heat. ? I will be using a couple of KW's to not freeze. Not looking for 140 KW over 80% as we only have 50 KW chargers up here anyway but 11 KW and running 2 KW to not freezes may take a while. 30 KW would be 3 times faster! Get it down to half an hour 80 to 90 would be appreciated.

You get 88kWh usable or ~88% of the battery pack. Total pack capacity goes down if the battery is cold. There’s not a software fix for this it is chemistry. So if it’s cold and the battery only can provide 90% of rated capacity you only have 79kWh approx available for use.

As to the charging, I have no idea why they would even suggest that. Probably to speed up charging speed by using the heater only for the battery? Unless it is insanely cold the heater should be able to do both no problem…

 

[Shayne]

You get 88kWh usable or ~88% of the battery pack. Total pack capacity goes down if the battery is cold. There’s not a software fix for this it is chemistry. So if it’s cold and the battery only can provide 90% of rated capacity you only have 79kWh approx available for use.

As to the charging, I have no idea why they would even suggest that. Probably to speed up charging speed by using the heater only for the battery? Unless it is insanely cold the heater should be able to do both no problem…

Understand lithium tech is not as effective when cold. My purchase agreement says 88 KWh useable but when I travel I can not charge it to there? 80% is all I can get it to and then it dies. What we have is a 70 KWh pack 88@80% to start not close to 79 available in the cold. That is the biggest reduction of range for me right now 20% on top of temperature and chemistry. The new MME idea came from here with.

Some old Tesla Tips

 

[dbsb3233]

Understand lithium tech is not as effective when cold. My purchase agreement says 88 KWh useable but when I travel I can not charge it to there? 80% is all I can get it to and then it dies. What we have is a 70 KWh pack 88@80% to start not close to 79 available in the cold. That is the biggest reduction of range for me right now 20% on top of temperature and chemistry. The new MME idea came from here with.

Some old Tesla Tips

Not sure what you mean by "80% is all I can get it to and then it dies". Do you mean it stops charging ENTIRELEY at 80% SOC? It's supposed to just drop down to L2 power (~12kW) at 80% (regardless of the temperature).

 

[RickMachE]

Not sure what you mean by "80% is all I can get it to and then it dies". Do you mean it stops charging ENTIRELEY at 80% SOC? It's supposed to just drop down to L2 power (~12kW) at 80% (regardless of the temperature).

Yes, and then it takes over an hour more to get from 80 to 100%. And, if you're in an EA state that charges by the minute and not by the kWh, that is VERY expensive charging.

Level 2 charging is useless on a trip except overnight at the hotel.

 

[dbsb3233]

Yes, and then it takes over an hour more to get from 80 to 100%. And, if you're in an EA state that charges by the minute and not by the kWh, that is VERY expensive charging.

Level 2 charging is useless on a trip except overnight at the hotel.

That's why I always just DCFC to 80%.

 

[RickMachE]

So if they raise the 80% to 90% AND give us a 91kWh battery, that's an increase of about 16% in range assuming you don't go below 5% battery. They need to do this before year-end trips.

 

[DaMeatMan]

Please enlighten us on the GOM.

I have on at least the past 3 posts on exactly the same topic, perhaps type the word "GOM", and "cold weather" into the search box and feel free to pick from any number of the repetitive posts.

 

[dbsb3233]

So if they raise the 80% to 90% AND give us a 91kWh battery, that's an increase of about 16% in range assuming you don't go below 5% battery. They need to do this before year-end trips.

I wouldn't get my hopes up for similar DCFC power (~80kW) extended from 80-90%. Rumor is it'll be about half that (~40kW). But that would still help some on those legs we desperately need more than 80%.

If that's the way it ends up, I'll still stop DCFCing at 80% on my road trips, unless it's a route I have no choice. Most of my typical routes are well covered by EA though.

 

[SnBGC]

Well actually, many EVs do (depending on who's using the term). Inconsistency in the terminology. Half the time "EV" is used to include hybrids, while the other half of the time it refers to 100% electric only.

Agree. That article referenced is poorly written because the headline is different than the actual question asked. Industry standard terms are HEV, PHEV and BEV. All include these two words "Electric Vehicle".

 

[Shayne]

Not sure what you mean by "80% is all I can get it to and then it dies". Do you mean it stops charging ENTIRELEY at 80% SOC? It's supposed to just drop down to L2 power (~12kW) at 80% (regardless of the temperature).

Drops from about 47kw down to L2 ~ 11 KW here and not what I would call useable while sitting at a DCFC being charged by the minute. Can anyone name another EV that charges like this?

Yes, and then it takes over an hour more to get from 80 to 100%. And, if you're in an EA state that charges by the minute and not by the kWh, that is VERY expensive charging.

Level 2 charging is useless on a trip except overnight at the hotel.

At 11 KW? 80 to 100% on the 88 KWh pack is over 2 hours right now. Check Bjørn Nyland vids he was stubborn enough to sit there and do it.

I wouldn't get my hopes up for similar DCFC power (~80kW) extended from 80-90%. Rumor is it'll be about half that (~40kW). But that would still help some on those legs we desperately need more than 80%.

If that's the way it ends up, I'll still stop DCFCing at 80% on my road trips, unless it's a route I have no choice. Most of my typical routes are well covered by EA though.

40 KW sold. Only need it when you need it and if I do not need to charge over 80% of course will not. Right now it is not practical and/or useable charging over 80% which provide a 70 KWh pack while traveling. Just not right on a 99 KWh preorder and a 88 KWh USEABLE purchase agreement. Pretty good argument that there is not 88 KWh useable right now with only 80% of that being useable when needed. Thought this would be fixed by now but maybe notes or secrialert toke away from charging fixes?

 

[dbsb3233]

Drops from about 47kw down to L2 ~ 11 KW here and not what I would call useable while sitting at a DCFC being charged by the minute. Can anyone name another EV that charges like this?

Got it. By "dies" you mean drops way down to 12kW. For a moment I thought you meant yours stopped completely.

40 KW sold. Only need it when you need it and if I do not need to charge over 80% of course will not. Right now it is not practical and/or useable charging over 80% which provide a 70 KWh pack while traveling. Just not right on a 99 KWh preorder and a 88 KWh USEABLE purchase agreement. Pretty good argument that there is not 88 KWh useable right now with only 80% of that being useable when needed. Thought this would be fixed by now but maybe notes or secrialert toke away from charging fixes?

Yes and no. On the 2nd leg and beyond (per day) of a road trip, yes, 80% is the practical max in most cases. But the 1st leg we typically start with 100% (charging at home, or the hotel). So how useful that 88 kWh is really depends on how many legs you do that day. If 1 leg it's fully useful; if 2 it's half useful; If 3 it's 1/3rd useful, etc.

For a typical full road trip day, we usually do about 4 legs. First leg is 100%, 2 others are 80%, and the lunch stop can be anywhere from 80-90% depending on where we eat. Rather than wolfing down fast food in the car, we'll usually pick a sit-down restaurant (Thai or Chili's or something) that commonly takes us past 80% a bit.

The hinted-at increase in charging power from 80-90% hasn't happened in any of the existing OTAs yet. But rumored to be coming in a future one. No idea if it's the next one though. The OTA process has been slower to perfect than hoped and it appears to be slowing the pace of OTAs rolling out.

 

[Shayne]

Yes and no. On the 2nd leg and beyond (per day) of a road trip, yes, 80% is the practical max in most cases. But the 1st leg we typically start with 100% (charging at home, or the hotel). So how useful that 88 kWh is really depends on how many legs you do that day. If 1 leg it's fully useful; if 2 it's half useful; If 3 it's 1/3rd useful, etc.

For a typical full road trip day, we usually do about 4 legs. First leg is 100%, 2 others are 80%, and the lunch stop can be anywhere from 80-90% depending on where we eat. Rather than wolfing down fast food in the car, we'll usually pick a sit-down restaurant (Thai or Chili's or something) that commonly takes us past 80% a bit.

The hinted-at increase in charging power from 80-90% hasn't happened in any of the existing OTAs yet. But rumored to be coming in a future one. No idea if it's the next one though. The OTA process has been slower to perfect than hoped and it appears to be slowing the pace of OTAs rolling out.

The first leg does not matter as it is not the weakest link. 34 Kw/100 Km (1.84 mi/w) is my no fly zone line with only 80% at 90% that becomes a more comfortable 38 (1.64). I can sit for an hour for 10% so have a workaround but do wonder why? 80 to 90% at 30KW would be awesome.

So you are saying next there will be a cliff at 90%? Not normal. Only ev I know that will not charge to 100% which does blur the definition of useable a bit. I say right now we have 70 KWh.

 

[dbsb3233]

The first leg does not matter as it is not the weakest link. 34 Kw/100 Km (1.84 mi/w) is my no fly zone line with only 80% at 90% that becomes a more comfortable 38 (1.64). I can sit for an hour for 10% so have a workaround but do wonder why? 80 to 90% at 30KW would be awesome.

So you are saying next there will be a cliff at 90%? Not normal. Only ev I know that will not charge to 100% which does blur the definition of useable a bit. I say right now we have 70 KWh.

Well, first leg matters to me, because it happens every road trip. I was simply addressing your "there is not 88 KWh useable right now" statement by pointing out that that's only correct for the 2nd leg on, not typically the first. I don't measure usefulness by only the weakest link, I measure it for how it actually works in practice.

The only thing I've heard about (unconfirmed) is potential improvement in the 80-90% slice of the charge curve. No idea about 90-100%. Whether that's "normal" is frankly irrelevant to the reality. I already knew about the 80% cliff on the DCFC charging curve from researching the vehicle before I bought it. If I couldn't live with that, I wouldn't have bough the vehicle. But of course any improvement in the charging curve is still welcome.

 

[Shayne]

Well, first leg matters to me, because it happens every road trip. I was simply addressing your "there is not 88 KWh useable right now" statement by pointing out that that's only correct for the 2nd leg on, not typically the first. I don't measure usefulness by only the weakest link, I measure it for how it actually works in practice.

The only thing I've heard about (unconfirmed) is potential improvement in the 80-90% slice of the charge curve. No idea about 90-100%. Whether that's "normal" is frankly irrelevant to the reality. I already knew about the 80% cliff on the DCFC charging curve from researching the vehicle before I bought it. If I couldn't live with that, I wouldn't have bough the vehicle. But of course any improvement in the charging curve is still welcome.

First leg does not matter here if you are coming back and you are not still on the first leg. It is not like we can pick and choose charging stops here. We have just started with chargers. I waited for Superchargers quite awhile and we finally got SC recently (early 2020). CCS chargers by provinces also came in shortly behind so I picked CSS thinking it will be adopted. Even knowing the tesla were 350 KW and the CCS are 50.

Understand you think it is irrelevant but based on my purchase agreement I truly thought that it would be fixed by now. There was not a whole lot of EV options back when I preordered and bought a ford. There will be more of a selection on the next one I think.

We should be able to use at least 88 KWh? Which means charging it to 100% like any other batteries I own and use. It charges to 100% as I have been force to test on L2 numerous times. All we need is another 45 mins at DCFC to get it there and not over 2 hours. 0.2 * 88 /(45/60) = 23.5 KW think the car can handle that?

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