California CA CVRP changing terms Feb 24th, 2022 - Ford needs to update Mach-E to be an SUV on U.S. EPA data

[yngwenli]

There was a multi page debate/discussion when the BBB plan was being designed due to lower MSRP price limits to qualify for the tax credit, but the CA CVRP will be changing terms/requirements soon according to this page (Feb 24th):

https://cleanvehiclerebate.org/en/faqs/how-often-do-cvrp-program-requirements-change-0

and lowering the MSRP cap for "cars" to $45,000 from $60,000 (which used to matched the SUV/Truck/Van cap).

This will result in a price increase for all tax eligible Californian buyers (42% of all EV buyers) of $2,000 or $4,500 (if eligible) on nearly all Mach-e vehicles (the Select still falls under $45k barely).

EV share data:
https://afdc.energy.gov/data/10962


Per:
https://fueleconomy.gov/feg/findacarhelp.shtml#epaSizeClass

SUVs	Through MY 2010	As of MY 2011
	<8,500 lbs.	<10,000 lbs.

Even smaller cars like the Kyundai Kona Electric is classified as a Small SUV (click on the "Specs" tab):
https://fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=43604&id=43406&id=43747&id=44434

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyundai_Kona

Pretty much 99% of all other sources classify the Mach-E as an SUV outside of this EPA error:
https://www.nhtsa.gov/vehicle/2021/FORD/MUSTANG%2520MACH-E/SUV/RWD
(Look at any video/magazine review).

Ford Mustang Mach-E wins SUV of the Year award:
https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/11/business/mustang-mach-e-suv-of-the-year/index.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Mustang_Mach-E:
" The Ford Mustang Mach-E is a battery electric compact crossover SUV produced by Ford."


From this post, it sounds like they go by base vehicle price so additional options on any Select model is probably ok:
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/posts/6382871/
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/posts/6400831/


It didn't matter before when the BBB plan was only being discussed, but this really needs attention now from Ford or possibly assistance from the CVRP that they will recognize that the Mach-E is misclassified and would qualify (it currently qualifies).

Ford also needs to add the 2022 Mach-E into the program from another post I read.

Is there someone at Ford who can help assist and have the EPA classification updated?

@Ford Motor Company , can this be looked into?

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[RickMachE]

While it's worth flagging @Ford on this, I cannot imagine that someone at corporate isn't way ahead on knowing this.

 

[Neil4Real]

I thought it depends on the base MME price period and you can get any trim. If you notice on the CVRP website, it just says the MME is eligible and doesn’t list specific trims. Someone in that super long thread called and a CVRP processing rep said that they go based off this as well and that even GTs qualify right now, so all MMEs should still qualify.

 

[Neil4Real]

I guess if anyone has a 2021 GT/GT PE and DID get the rebate now, then I think it would be fair to assume this would still hold true for the changes. Someone who did this please chime in!

 

[yngwenli]

I guess if anyone has a 2021 GT/GT PE and DID get the rebate now, then I think it would be fair to assume this would still hold true for the changes. Someone who did this please chime in!

Yeah, if the Select base price is the only thing that matters, we're all good, but there is no paperwork/documentation on your sales agreement.

It still should be fixed IMO on the EPA site since if they piecemeal pass the BBB, this discussion/concern will certainly pop up again since that's now a $7.5k federal tax credit and affects all buyers across the USA so that helps eliminate the confusion once and for all.

Another car to keep an eye on related to this is the 2022 Ioniq 5. It's listed as eligible on the CVRP website, their base model SE is $43,650, but the EPA lists the Ionic 5 as a "Large Cars". The limit is still $60k though currently.

If after Feb 24th, the Ioniq 5 drops off or only the SE is listed, then the MME might get the same treatment without a change.

The 2022 Mustang Mach-E isn't even listed yet.

 

[Neil4Real]

Yeah, if the Select base price is used, we're all good, but there is no paperwork/documentation on your sales agreement so that's not much to stand on.

It still should be fixed IMO on the EPA site since if they piecemeal pass the BBB, this discussion/concern will certainly pop up again since that's now a $7.5k federal tax credit and affects all buyers across the USA.

Agreed. But if they do just go through and make cars eligible, and the processing person doesn’t have to verify for themselves if the price qualifies, then we’d be fine. I would assume, if this is how they do it, the processor just verifies the vehicle is eligible and then doesn’t bother paying attention to the price on the sales contract.

 

[Avelli]

I guess if anyone has a 2021 GT/GT PE and DID get the rebate now, then I think it would be fair to assume this would still hold true for the changes. Someone who did this please chime in!

To add salt to the wound, the base GT with no options used to be $59,995. After the price increase it is no longer eligible.

 

[deadduck]

Another car to keep an eye on related to this is the 2022 Ioniq 5. It's listed as eligible on the CVRP website, their base model SE is $43,650, but the EPA lists the Ionic 5 as a "Large Cars". The limit is still $60k though currently.

What happens when they take that car and add a $10K ADM on it? Does that wipe out the rebate?

It won't kill a SE, but they're jacking those things up hard. Same question applies to an MME on the lot?

 

[yngwenli]

What happens when they take that car and add a $10K ADM on it? Does that wipe out the rebate?

It won't kill a SE, but they're jacking those things up hard. Same question applies to an MME on the lot?

From the Tesla forums, the base is listed on their orders and options are separate line items.

For the MME, the window sticker has a base MSRP, and options are all added after that as well (it's probably like that on the sales order/purchase agreement). The ADM is probably also separate.

Unfortunately, in my eyes, the base price for Premium and GT is higher than this $45k.

What's also a concern with this change is that the window sticker also has "Small Station Wagons". on it. I'll probably still apply honestly, but don't know how CVRP will treat it until others apply and get an answer.

The BBB limit was $55k for sedans, but $80k for vans, SUVs, trucks.

 

[deadduck]

From the Tesla forums, the base is listed on their orders and options are separate line items.

For the MME, the window sticker has a base MSRP, and options are all added after that as well (it's probably like that on the sales order/purchase agreement). The ADM is probably also separate.

Unfortunately, in my eyes, the base price for Premium and GT is higher than this $45k.

What's also a concern with this change is that the window sticker also has "Small Station Wagons". on it. I'll probably still apply honestly, but don't know how CVRP will treat it until others apply and get an answer.

The BBB limit was $55k for sedans, but $80k for vans, SUVs, trucks.

Thanks for the reply. My order is a 2022 so it's not even on the website.

California gets nuts with this stuff. They're trying to slash solar subsidies so you can pretty much bank that at some point they'll get rid of this rebate too.

 

[ARK]

Thanks for the reply. My order is a 2022 so it's not even on the website.

California gets nuts with this stuff. They're trying to slash solar subsidies so you can pretty much bank that at some point they'll get rid of this rebate too.

They already halfed the CVRP once from $1,500 to $750 so it is very much possible.

I will say though, whatever one thinks of government EV subsidies, it’s hard to justify as a good use of taxpayer funds for vehicles that have multi-month waiting lists to purchase (e.g., Mach-E and Teslas).

 

[Avelli]

What happens when they take that car and add a $10K ADM on it? Does that wipe out the rebate?

It won't kill a SE, but they're jacking those things up hard. Same question applies to an MME on the lot?

The rebate is based off the MSRP, not the selling price.

Unscrupulous dealers out there are adding $10k ADM, and telling buyers "don't worry, you'll get that back in tax rebates and incentives!". Quite often this isn't even true either (depending on the individual's tax liability towards the federal rebate).

 

[Dancefreak]

They already halfed the CVRP once from $1,500 to $750 so it is very much possible.

I will say though, whatever one thinks of government EV subsidies, it’s hard to justify as a good use of taxpayer funds for vehicles that have multi-month waiting lists to purchase (e.g., Mach-E and Teslas).

That’s the clean air fuel reward that was halved. Different program. That one is run by the utility companies. Though CVRP has decreased over the years as well.

 

[Motomax]

Thanks for the reply. My order is a 2022 so it's not even on the website.

California gets nuts with this stuff. They're trying to slash solar subsidies so you can pretty much bank that at some point they'll get rid of this rebate too.

These types of rebates are kinda stupid anyways. I’d much rather pay less taxes then fund these types of programs. That’ll never happen though.

 

[DevSecOps]

Maybe we should just stop giving out rebates/hand outs all together. Then there's nothing to worry about!

@Motomax like minds post at the same time.

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