Dealer says software updates aren't done unless needed

[dml105]

You can apply updates on your own.

https://www.macheforum.com/site/thr...ach-e-with-fdrs-alternative-to-forscan.10217/

Yes, but that requires a fair amount of expense for something that should be free. You have to buy a dongle ($400) a subscription (at least $50), a power supply ($250?)

The dealer should do this for free, or at worst, a nominal charge. It's not like they're sitting there actively working on the car for hours on end. They plug it in, start the computer, then do other s--t around the shop until it's done.

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[generaltso]

How could Owners possibly know which updates they want... we have no idea what is fixed/enhanced in any particular module update.

Most owners don't. As a matter of fact most owners aren't on this forum, so they would never know that any updates exist until they get them via OTA or get a letter from Ford with CSP information.

Don't you think it would be reasonable 'policy' in our MMEs for Dealerships to be pre-authorized to check for available 'Service-Pak' updates which presumably are meaningful, and apply them when you have your vehicle on the rack? Let's say as part of your annual/10k mile checkup ?

That's exactly what they did with CSP 21P22. Ford decided which updates were meaningful and pre-authorized dealers to apply all of the included updates when the vehicle was in for any service. Is your argument just that every update for every module should be pre-authorized for every car that's in for any service? That will never happen.

 

[RyZt]

I took my car into the dealer yesterday to get the 21P22 update, which they did I presume. So, I'm good with that. While there I presented them with a list of other updates available. I got the list from one of our own here on the forum based upon my VIN. Their response from the dealer was that Ford has told them not to do any of those updates unless something is broke because they might introduce problems.

I'm hearing a different story from folks on the Internet who say that Ford recommends doing all updates because they fix problems.

21P22 is very extensive. It covers pretty much every module in the car. You can read Ford’s instruction to the dealers in the attachment at https://www.macheforum.com/site/thr...re-did-my-dealer-do-all-of-the-updates.13081/

As a result, these two paragraphs from your original thread are not in disagreement.

Now, for future updates, your concern is valid. My hope is that Ford will get better at OTA. I just don’t see dealers routinely updates all modules whenever a car is in for service.

 

[benk016]

none of us do since there are no release notes....



really?
none of the ones for csr21p22 have been sent to MY car via OTA.

Don't you think it would be reasonable 'policy' in our MMEs for Dealerships to be pre-authorized to check for available 'Service-Pak' updates which presumably are meaningful, and apply them when you have your vehicle on the rack? Let's say as part of your annual/10k mile checkup ?

None of those updates have come OTA at this time, sure. But they will. And since its taking longer than expected, Ford is authorizing dealers to update those modules at time of any service operation. Exactly like you're wanting. Once the OTA's really start up, they will stop authorizing dealers to do this except in scenarios where things are broken.

Ford isn't going to do anything special for this car regarding updates. They will slowly move all cars to be OTA capable to get even more away from dealers doing this. The Mach E and F150 are just the guinea pigs for that, and we're still in that phase of getting it working correctly.

 

[benk016]

21P22 is very extensive. It covers pretty much every module in the car. You can read Ford’s instruction to the dealers in the attachment at https://www.macheforum.com/site/thr...re-did-my-dealer-do-all-of-the-updates.13081/

As a result, these two paragraphs from your original thread are not in disagreement.

Now, for future updates, your concern is valid. My hope is that Ford will get better at OTA. I just don’t see dealers routinely updates all modules whenever a car is in for service.

21P22, doesn't even cover half the modules in this car. It lists 12 out of the 40-something modules the car has.

 

[Kamuelaflyer]

I took my car into the dealer yesterday to get the 21P22 update, which they did I presume. So, I'm good with that. While there I presented them with a list of other updates available. I got the list from one of our own here on the forum based upon my VIN. Their response from the dealer was that Ford has told them not to do any of those updates unless something is broke because they might introduce problems.

I'm hearing a different story from folks on the Internet who say that Ford recommends doing all updates because they fix problems.

Which is the case? What does Ford recommend? Is it posted anywhere?

My take is that the dealer doesn't get paid to do those updates so they just don't want to do them for free.

Each TSB has a list of what symptoms it corrects and usually a set of criterion that need to be met before a dealer can take action on that TSB and get paid by Ford. Examine those criteria. Some also require various error codes, others just complaints from the owner. You’ll know what to do,

 

[Silver Surfer]

Got my doors updated a few months ago now my driver and front passenger door are back to doing the same ol shit, Ford needs to fix this asap.

 

[RickMachE]

I think some people seem to think a car is a computer, always requiring updates. Very unrealistic to think any manufacturer is going to pay a dealer to update for the sake of updating.

Wait till the warranty runs out. No updates at a dealer without a recall. SSM updates aren't free.

Had a check engine light on our out of warranty Fusion Energi PHEV. Had to pay for an hours labor for the SSM software update that could not be applied for free during warranty because the condition didn't exist.

 

[dtbaker61]

Most owners don't. As a matter of fact most owners aren't on this forum, so they would never know that any updates exist until they get them via OTA or get a letter from Ford with CSP information.



That's exactly what they did with CSP 21P22. Ford decided which updates were meaningful and pre-authorized dealers to apply all of the included updates when the vehicle was in for any service. Is your argument just that every update for every module should be pre-authorized for every car that's in for any service? That will never happen.

I don't think I ever got a letter from Ford that CSP 21p22 was available, or 'meaningful' for my VIN. The only way I knew about it, or that it COULD be applied to my car to make some meaningful fixes based on my build date was proactively asking on this Forum.

so.... how about I amend my unreasonable request to :

Wouldn't it be nice if Dealers were pre-authorized to check for and apply open CSR packaged updates available for specific VIN when and if they have the vehicle in for Service for Warranty/Recall/annual-10k mile checkups?

This would be a nice way to handle it and catch 'meaningful' updates that have not been delivered via OTA.... and become UN-neccesary once all updates are available OTA with more reliability.

 

[Mathington]

I think some people seem to think a car is a computer, always requiring updates. Very unrealistic to think any manufacturer is going to pay a dealer to update for the sake of updating.

Wait till the warranty runs out. No updates at a dealer without a recall. SSM updates aren't free.

Had a check engine light on our out of warranty Fusion Energi PHEV. Had to pay for an hours labor for the SSM software update that could not be applied for free during warranty because the condition didn't exist.

This is exactly why I went with the extended warranty, I don't want to run into problems after the 3 year warranty expires.

 

[hybrid2bev]

Yes, but that requires a fair amount of expense for something that should be free. You have to buy a dongle ($400) a subscription (at least $50), a power supply ($250?)

The dealer should do this for free, or at worst, a nominal charge. It's not like they're sitting there actively working on the car for hours on end. They plug it in, start the computer, then do other s--t around the shop until it's done.

And the cost of a laptop if you don't already have one.

The updates are not click once and walk away, there's a process to each them. Look at how many 'button pressed' operations there are for just this one module update (14!), turn ignition on, turn ignition off etc. Then repeat for the other modules. (Some do update multiple modules at the same time, but still lots of clicks.)

 

[benk016]

I don't think I ever got a letter from Ford that CSP 21p22 was available, or 'meaningful' for my VIN. The only way I knew about it, or that it COULD be applied to my car to make some meaningful fixes based on my build date was proactively asking on this Forum.

so.... how about I amend my unreasonable request to :

Wouldn't it be nice if Dealers were pre-authorized to check for and apply open CSR packaged updates available for specific VIN when and if they have the vehicle in for Service for Warranty/Recall/annual-10k mile checkups?

This would be a nice way to handle it and catch 'meaningful' updates that have not been delivered via OTA.... and become UN-neccesary once all updates are available OTA with more reliability.

It was on the letters with the Glass recalls. It mentioned that wile you were in for that service, the dealer would also update your car with the current software available.

They didn't just announce it to customers, because it was meant to just be done when a car came in for other service, to keep from dealers being overwhelmed with people just wanting updates and nothing else.

 

[generaltso]

Wouldn't it be nice if Dealers were pre-authorized to check for and apply open CSR packaged updates available for specific VIN when and if they have the vehicle in for Service for Warranty/Recall/annual-10k mile checkups?

You are describing the exact thing that they're doing with CSP 21P22.

 

[RickMachE]

I don't think I ever got a letter from Ford that CSP 21p22 was available, or 'meaningful' for my VIN. The only way I knew about it, or that it COULD be applied to my car to make some meaningful fixes based on my build date was proactively asking on this Forum.

so.... how about I amend my unreasonable request to :

Wouldn't it be nice if Dealers were pre-authorized to check for and apply open CSR packaged updates available for specific VIN when and if they have the vehicle in for Service for Warranty/Recall/annual-10k mile checkups?

This would be a nice way to handle it and catch 'meaningful' updates that have not been delivered via OTA.... and become UN-neccesary once all updates are available OTA with more reliability.

I got the recall letter, followed by a recall reminder letter with information about the software update, in December. The software update was not mentioned in the first recall letter. That's probably a legal and NHTSA thing.

 

[OON7]

I think we are just now seeing the first tests of module updating over OTA so I think we will see progress. I believe there is another recent thread covering that success.

I scheduled an appointment for the CSP 21P22 specifically because of my front doors not unlocking, clearly stated it in the reason for appointment and based on my appointment time the dealer had at least three hours to complete it. I also asked to pair with the 10,000 mile suggested service. After I had already been there for an hour, they came back to tell me they didn't have time to do the software updates. I asked if they could even just do the door modules and they said no it will take three hours and it is all or nothing. So I left, basically got my tires rotated and wiper fluid for $47.99, and the bonus of a service reminder sticker on my window to come back in 5,000 miles presumably for an "oil change". Pretty much going to avoid dealers however possible going forward. Right now they are too afraid to even do the windshield recall here too so that is still outstanding.

Anyhoo, went home ordered a $150 J2534 clone from Amazon, bought a two day FDRS $50 license, and spent about two hours updating everything on the car. Used my wife's car as a backup for the power supply. Is that reckless, maybe (probably), but I honestly enjoyed the process and the ability to see behind the curtains a bit. Everything was successful... EXCEPT when I closed the doors to run in the house while it was doing the door module update. Thought I locked myself out of the car for a few minutes there LOL. Thankfully the doors opened back up when the update completed... whew.

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