Safety Recall 22S41 - 2021-2022 Mach E - HVBJB Recall [high voltage battery main contactors may overheat]

[HuntingPudel]

First, WOT is the acronym we have been using for decades. WOP sounds dumb and racist. Whomever coined “wide open pedal” should be whipped with a wet noodle. ??

That said, it is not a combination of DCFC and high power events. According to other threads on this issue, there are people who have had the HVBJB issue who have never DCFC’d. DCFC events are correlated into the issue, as are high power events. It is not necessarily a combination of the two. ??

Sponsored

 

[ripperAZ]

Don’t kid yourself I knew a guy who routinely cooked food in his car engine here’s a list of all the delicious foods you can make inside your ICE engine
Jes Sayin

https://www.wikihow.com/Cook-Food-on-Your-Car's-Engine?amp=1

 

[Kamuelaflyer]

Unfortunately there is no polite way to say this, but yes, you are wrong.

I don't know Ron, that sure seemed pretty polite to me

Those of us who have been here awhile rather quickly came to the realization that it's usually not a smart thing to be disagreeing with either one of you as to how this car works.

Isn’t that a Ricky Gervais quote?

I don't watch or follow him so ... maybe? I actually adapted it from a quote used by various posters on Quora. Now if you want to see toxic and inane, meander on over there.

 

[2021-MMEx-RT1]

Come on - every MME owner floors the pedal sometimes. Yet only a handful of people have the problem.

I think I've floored her twice. Once yesterday when some assclown was inching up at the light and I knew he wanted to right-turn into my lane. He was 1/2 length in front and when the light went green, I floored it...

beat him, but was disappointed by the lack of 'speed' that my other EVs had. I guess this beast @~5000 pounds is to heavy to give a real taste of EV get up and go...

 

[Pushrods&Capacitors]

Sounds like great news for GT/GTPE owners..... Not!


Hopefully they are still able to meet their published hp numbers and 0-60 time. Wonder if this will turn into the early 2000's mustang Cobra scenario.

Agreed. I’ve posted many comments referencing the 1999 Cobra class action suit and resulting fixes. If the 5 second rule didn’t push GT owners over the edge in significant enough numbers, this sure has the potential to.

 

[2021-MMEx-RT1]

Don’t kid yourself I knew a guy who routinely cooked food in his car engine

Done that more than once. ~50 miles from home to Mom's so wrap a roast with baby potatoes and mushroom soup (no water) in Tin Foil and put it on the intake manifold.

by the time we got to Mom's it was almost done and pop it in the over for 10, 15 more min and dinners ready!

 

[billy_at]

Don’t kid yourself I knew a guy who routinely cooked food in his car engine here’s a list of all the delicious foods you can make inside your ICE engine
Jes

https://www.wikihow.com/Cook-Food-on-Your-Car's-Engine?amp=1

Haha, at least they’re using aluminum foil in this example!

 

[Kamuelaflyer]

The recall has now been posted to the NHTSA website with lots of details.

They confirm it's only a software update:



And every listed component (all 50 of them) in the attached PDF is software - no physical parts mentioned.

The document also confirms updates will be available in July (not just the vague "Q3" we heard yesterday).

It also describes what the software will do:



It sounds to me like this will reduce power only when a dangerous situation with the contactors has been detected - I imagine when you've got the combination of DCFC and flooring the pedal that Ford mentioned yesterday.

On the bottom of page 10, it says the problem was corrected in production simply by introducing new software on May 25, 2022. The speculation about different hardware being used in post-May 25 builds seems to have been unfounded:



Other interesting historical details:



* VOQ = Vehicle Owner Questionnaire

Thank you for posting this.

 

[Pushrods&Capacitors]

I mean, I don't know what to say to you. You can believe that if you want, but it's obivously not true that just flooring the pedal will make this happen. Come on - every MME owner floors the pedal sometimes. Yet only a handful of people have the problem. And Ford mentions a link between DCFC and flooring the pedal. We don't know what that link is, but it's clearly not as simple as just flooring it. We know that both from the recall and from empirical evidence.

And we even know of plenty of people (through surveys of forum members) who DCFC all the time and floor the pedal all the time, and have never had this problem.

Just relax! Everyone! I mean, don't relax about the recall itself - the problem itself is definitely lame and unfortunate. But relax with the wild speculation about permanent all-the-time performance reductions.

That top quote is not mine, not sure why my username is on it. @mburtsvt is the one who made that comment fyi

No need to relax, I’m totally chill here. Also, I understand that WOT runs don’t cause the issue every time, but the recall obviously pinpoints that use case as a failure mode worthy of dialing back current.

And, as an owner of a 4X who
quite possibly has more WOT Dragy runs than any other owner on this board GT or otherwise I understand full well that this isn’t happening to everyone who boots the throttle pedal on the reg. 0-100, 30-100, 30-110, 1/4 mile, I’ve done it all many times.

 

[joely]

Exactly; this shouldn't be considered 0.5% of cars. This should be considered 0.5% per year...

Regardless of timeframe, 0.5% is a HUGE defect rate in modern quality control systems. Combined with the severity, this was almost certainly a brown pants moment on the inside.

 

[MattG]

This is a dangerous ”fix” though it makes sense as a backup safety feature, to monitor temps like that. I spend lots of time driving two lane rural highways and frequently passing other cars. I time my passes based upon what my car can offer for acceleration. If I’m in the middle of a pass and it decides to cut power, that creates a dangerous condition for me. Not at all a fan of this approach…if the HVBJB is prone to faults it needs to be redesigned and replaced.

 

[AKgrampy]

It's really quite a lot of meat:

So the fix is using Cool Ranch dip versus Hot Sauce?

 

[Pushrods&Capacitors]

This is a dangerous ”fix” though it makes sense as a backup safety feature, to monitor temps like that. I spend lots of time driving two lane rural highways and frequently passing other cars. I time my passes based upon what my car can offer for acceleration. If I’m in the middle of a pass and it decides to cut power, that creates a dangerous condition for me. Not at all a fan of this approach…if the HVBJB is prone to faults it needs to be redesigned and replaced.

Bingo.

 

[billy_at]

That top quote is not mine, not sure why my username is on it. @mburtsvt is the one who made that comment fyi

Sorry, fixed!

 

[Richard L.]

This stated in the NHTSA document.

Description of the Cause : The design and part-to-part variation of the high voltage battery contactor is not robust to the heat generated during DC fast charging and multiple wide open pedal events.

Not Robust? Obviously a design flaw. When the software detects a resistance change power will be reduced. Has some small level of damage occurred during this event? Is it cumulative? I expect eventual failures of the HVBJB. Better have an extended warranty on hand.

Sponsored