Ford Range Increase Coming?

[polzovotel]

A Mach-E First Edition, so $58,300 for 270 miles, when the comparable Model Y is $8,310 less for 51 more miles of range.

This is just not the correct calculation - you should deduct $7500 federal tax credit (the majority of EV buyers will get a full $7500). In some states (like Texas) you will get an additional $2500 incentive (not for Tesla as it is not sold in Texas). And MY is not 316miles (I owned one - the best I was able to get is 280). We will need to see what will be the real range of MME. I am not saying MME is better or worse than MY. I just say the numbers you present should be correct. Your problem with MY may start when you will need a service - here in Austin, it was a nightmare. Ford probably will be better from this perspective.

P.S. If you can not qualify for 7500 federal credit you should not buy an EV IMHO - buying EV is not a money-wise decision now, as this market is changing rapidly. All these talks about EV will require less maintenance, electricity is cheaper than gas, etc - is a total BS as the premium you pay for the car will require you to have this car for 5-7 years for break even. And you can buy a great ICE car for 50K (much better than MY and MME).

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[silverelan]

The recent price drop of the Mach-E definitely helps but the value proposition dropped a smidge this morning with the Model Y range bump. As Tesla stretches out the Model Y EPA range beyond 300 miles, it gets increasingly important for Ford to get the Mach-E AWD over 300.

 

[MailGuy]

Not when the value proposition is that different. I can get a 353 mile Model 3 for less than a "270 est" Mach-E. That automatically makes the Mach-E a harder sell.

That's why the Polestar 2 is DOA in the US. It might be a great car, but for $10k more than Model 3 with more than a 100 mile lower range.

I like the looks of the Mach-E better for sure, that's why I ordered one.

But that range had better start with a 3 for AWD ER variants or I hope another $2-3k MSRP cut is coming.

To sway new BEV buyers, your point is valid. However, for some buyers, possibly not. The Electric Mini is being beaten up in the press for its' range. At they same time though reviewers have to acknowledge that the car is just flat out a joy to drive, and it will still work for many. They're absolutely right. Just like there are people who buy Smart cars, and SUV's that need a gazillion gallon tank to put a 3 in front of their range estimate, there's room for a broad market appeal with BEV's.

 

[silverelan]

I'm getting somewhat worried about the range on the GT.

235-250 miles is looking increasingly silly as Tesla Model Y Performance range gets over the 300 mi barrier.

 

[MailGuy]

I'm getting somewhat worried about the range on the GT.

235-250 miles is looking increasingly silly as Tesla Model Y Performance range gets over the 300 mi barrier.

Why do we only obsess about range for BEV's, because the infra and recharge time aren't there yet. Honestly, nobody buying an ICE based vehicle even talks about range. I've had a few rental cars lately and it's actually shocked me how the size of the gas tank has shrank to the point where the expected range on my most recent vehicle was 325 miles. ICE buyers just take for granted that there will be a refueling station readily available when they need it and it won't take more than 10 minutes to fill up. That and initial cost are the real barriers to BEV's, not range.

Said differently I may have once gotten 607 miles on a tank of gas in my Prius, but I've moved on. 270 miles on a MME, 110 on a Mini, 259 on a Bolt suits me just fine. I bought (or intend to buy in the case of the MME) each of those cars knowing that up front and I've not looked back once.

 

[polzovotel]

100%

Why do we only obsess about range for BEV's, because the infra and recharge time aren't there yet. Honestly, nobody buying an ICE based vehicle even talks about range. I've had a few rental cars lately and it's actually shocked me how the size of the gas tank has shrank to the point where the expected range on my most recent vehicle was 325 miles. ICE buyers just take for granted that there will be a refueling station readily available when they need it and it won't take more than 10 minutes to fill up. That and initial cost are the real barriers to BEV's, not range.

Said differently I may have once gotten 607 miles on a tank of gas in my Prius, but I've moved on. 270 miles on a MME, 110 on a Mini, 259 on a Bolt suits me just fine. I bought (or intend to buy in the case of the MME) each of those cars knowing that up front and I've not looked back once.

That is correct when you do not intend to use the car for a long commute. You still need to have a good SUV (X5/X7 level) if you want to travel with your family on long trips.

 

[ab13]

Again... while I don't compare the price of the Y to the Mach-E, because I'm not interested in buying a Y... the Mach-E can't match the Y's range either.

As was noted, the size of the vehicles are different. At least the Mach E has more width for rear seat passengers than the Y, and the Y has less than the 3. So the Y isn't really the "larger" vehicle, even if people think it is. That's where the "tricks" come in. Why wasn't the Y bigger for passenger than the 3 for rear passengers across the row? Because they wanted to get more range from the vehicle sacrificing interior space. There is always a trade off even if people don't realize all the other missing parts off of the Y.

 

[trutolife27]

Yes but since Ford doesn't make "cars" anymore, I have to compare Model 3 to Mach-E. That was Ford's choice.

yeah since tesla doesn't make a helicopter I have to compare the model 3 to this. Sometimes it's like talking to a wall.

 

[silverelan]

Why do we only obsess about range for BEV's, because the infra and recharge time aren't there yet. Honestly, nobody buying an ICE based vehicle even talks about range. I've had a few rental cars lately and it's actually shocked me how the size of the gas tank has shrank to the point where the expected range on my most recent vehicle was 325 miles. ICE buyers just take for granted that there will be a refueling station readily available when they need it and it won't take more than 10 minutes to fill up. That and initial cost are the real barriers to BEV's, not range.

Said differently I may have once gotten 607 miles on a tank of gas in my Prius, but I've moved on. 270 miles on a MME, 110 on a Mini, 259 on a Bolt suits me just fine. I bought (or intend to buy in the case of the MME) each of those cars knowing that up front and I've not looked back once.

For the Mach-E to be successful long term, it has to compete with the basic specs of the comparable Tesla on range & recharging and it has to do so at a close price point. That's before other things can even be considered (build quality, service stations, looks, etc).

If the range/recharging is not there at a close price point for Ford, then it's just not going to be viable long term and we'll be stuck with an orphaned vehicle.

 

[timbop]

yeah since tesla doesn't make a helicopter I have to compare the model 3 to this. Sometimes it's like talking to a wall.

exactly. if everyone stops talking to that wall, the echoes coming back from that wall will stop.

 

[silverelan]

yeah since tesla doesn't make a helicopter I have to compare the model 3 to this. Sometimes it's like talking to a wall.

I am passionate about the Mach-E and I very much care how this turns out. I'm about to spend twice as much money as I've ever spent on a car. The success of the Mach-E is vital on so many levels and I'm glad I'm not the only one who is rooting for this to happen.

 

[dbsb3233]

Why do we only obsess about range for BEV's, because the infra and recharge time aren't there yet. ...
That and initial cost are the real barriers to BEV's, not range.

Yes, range is a huge deal in BEVs because the charger coverage and recharge time aren't there yet. Exactly right.

But until they are, then range continues to be huge. And they likely won't be there for years. It'll gradually improve, but we're still many years from right-sized chargers being ubiquitous, and charge times under 10 minutes (more like <5 minutes to match ICE, which will probably never happen).

Fortunately that's a non-issue when using a BEV charged at home. That's where they excel.

I do think there's probably something to your point that people get used to the compromise on slow and sparce charging though. While it's clear takes longer and is more difficult to find than ICE refueling, it's likely something many will just get used to and live with to gain the other advantages of cheap and easy home charging the rest of the time.

 

[agoldman]

I'm getting somewhat worried about the range on the GT.

235-250 miles is looking increasingly silly as Tesla Model Y Performance range gets over the 300 mi barrier.

Well you could also say that about the Mustang GT with the highest HP. It's going to take a mpg hit. That goes with the territory. But I also think the GT will be rated in it's more aggressive driving mode. probably if there is an ECO setting for more normal driving situations, it may be real world closer to the range of the other AWD models. We'll see..

I do think within the next year or so, 300 will be the new acceptable baseline for most high end electric offerings. And as much as I wouldn't buy one at this point, tesla is setting the benchmarks in this segment.

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