Dealer stating I need a letter from Ford to update modules. Need advice

[Davedough]

So I finally took my car in to get all the modules updated as well as the Recall for the HVJB software. The service manager was being an ass this morning and stated that I need a letter from Ford to say that my modules need to be updated. I told him, no, I looked in FDRS (someone here did for me) and the modules are not up to date with what new cars are being shipped with, therefore I would like them updated, and he rolled his eyes and walked away.

When I pick my car up after the recall is installed, I want to have someone run my VIN again and see if they actually did what I asked, but I'm wondering what kind of recourse do I have if they actively refuse to do it? Is there anything I can show them to have them do it? It's service. They're supposed to service my car. It's a little cart before the horse, but I have a feeling they're not going to do it and try to pass it off as completed.

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[generaltso]

Ford won’t pay them to update modules just because updates are available. There has to be a recall, CSP, SSM, TSB, or some other bulletin that authorizes the updates. That being said, a lot of the updates do fall under such bulletins.

 

[scoopman]

Yeah so Ford's made all sorts of improvements and fixed bugs in the software for the 30+ modules in the car, but their OTA infrastructure seems to be state-of-the-art for 1978.

So if you want your dealer to update modules, you basically have to pay for it or have specific TSBs or CSPs from Ford that the dealer can use to claim warranty work. I think your car should still qualify for the CSP 21P22 update, which I believe flashes lots of modules (and it probably results in so many dependencies that it'll effectively update almost everything I bet). That gives you the better charging curve, and lots of other stuff.

Not sure if there's another choice of dealers, though, because it doesn't sound like the one you took your car to is focused on treating you well.

 

[ARK]

A lot of these updates for modules are not done if there is no issue. The reason is that with any update, there is a risk of unintentionally breaking something, and the updates often are done only to address a narrow issue some people are experiencing, not to add features or make the device work better.

Computers have these too. Windows computers used to call it BIOS. These updates aren't for things like enabling a new feature on Windows 10, but have to do with things like the software that controls your computer's motherboard.

It's like lifting the hood of a computer, if you've ever come across the term 'overclocking', it's through settings in BIOS that power users/gamers mess with internal settings to achieve things like that.

Updating BIOS is relatively high risk compared to updating something like Windows 10, and the same analogy holds with cars. Updating a module is more risky than doing a Sync update, because if things go wrong, the consequences are more severe. It's usually not done as a matter of course on a PC, and I personally see the risks as being higher on a vehicle.

That's why the dealer gave you a weird reaction. They don't update modules like this as a matter of course, and probably want a letter from Ford so they are off the hook if something goes wrong applying updates that are not called for in any manual they are looking at.

 

[RickMachE]

So I finally took my car in to get all the modules updated as well as the Recall for the HVJB software. The service manager was being an ass this morning and stated that I need a letter from Ford to say that my modules need to be updated. I told him, no, I looked in FDRS (someone here did for me) and the modules are not up to date with what new cars are being shipped with, therefore I would like them updated, and he rolled his eyes and walked away.

When I pick my car up after the recall is installed, I want to have someone run my VIN again and see if they actually did what I asked, but I'm wondering what kind of recourse do I have if they actively refuse to do it? Is there anything I can show them to have them do it? It's service. They're supposed to service my car. It's a little cart before the horse, but I have a feeling they're not going to do it and try to pass it off as completed.

Scratching my head here. You've been on the forum since October 2020. This kind of topic has been discussed many times. Both the above answers are right on.

I just bought a 2022 and sold my 2021 (2022 was my original 2021 order). The Service Manager agreed to deliver me a fully updated vehicle, i.e. apply all updates, as a condition of sale. At delivery, with BlueCruise and Ford server issues, he asked if he could update just a few modules and hold off on the rest until things settled down. I agreed, and next week am taking it in for the recall update and all the other modules - I have 10 modules that could be updated and only 3 are part of the recall. Otherwise, I would get 3 modules updated (unless one of them pulled in more updates), and that's that.

 

[coolshades]

there is a recall email from Ford UK sent to all owners this week.

 

[babgvant]

Yeah so Ford's made all sorts of improvements and fixed bugs in the software for the 30+ modules in the car, but their OTA infrastructure seems to be state-of-the-art for 1978.

So if you want your dealer to update modules, you basically have to pay for it or have specific TSBs or CSPs from Ford that the dealer can use to claim warranty work. I think your car should still qualify for the CSP 21P22 update, which I believe flashes lots of modules (and it probably results in so many dependencies that it'll effectively update almost everything I bet). That gives you the better charging curve, and lots of other stuff.

Not sure if there's another choice of dealers, though, because it doesn't sound like the one you took your car to is focused on treating you well.

When I took my car in for 21P22, I gave the dealer a list of all the random issues I was having with the car. There wasn't anything major on the list, but it covered as many of the modules as I could honestly complain about (e.g. PAAK issues, wireless charging issues, wonkiness with the driver's door, etc). B/w the list, 21P22, and 22S41 the dealer ended up updating all of the modules (or at least that's what they told me, I should probably have someone look it up).

Folks are really good about posting TSBs here, it's quite likely that your car is impacted by them. Have a look through them and note the ones that are surfacing in the car.

Hopefully Ford can get it's OTA act together soon. I am hopeful that they will. As crappy as the whole 22S41 thing is, they have a massive incentive to avoid sending 50k cars through their dealer network.

 

[Maquis]

My dealer will apply any available updates whenever they have my car. ??

 

[Logal727]

Scratching my head here. You've been on the forum since October 2020. This kind of topic has been discussed many times. Both the above answers are right on.

I just bought a 2022 and sold my 2021 (2022 was my original 2021 order). The Service Manager agreed to deliver me a fully updated vehicle, i.e. apply all updates, as a condition of sale. At delivery, with BlueCruise and Ford server issues, he asked if he could update just a few modules and hold off on the rest until things settled down. I agreed, and next week am taking it in for the recall update and all the other modules - I have 10 modules that could be updated and only 3 are part of the recall. Otherwise, I would get 3 modules updated (unless one of them pulled in more updates), and that's that.

Lol, I think you deal with some sort of dream dealership that doesn't exist anywhere else. This is not a reality anyone can expect to get out of a sale and service agreement. But I like that you've been able to negotiate it for so long.

 

[moparguy]

Updating BIOS is relatively high risk compared to updating something like Windows 10, and the same analogy holds with cars. Updating a module is more risky than doing a Sync update, because if things go wrong, the consequences are more severe. It's usually not done as a matter of course on a PC, and I personally see the risks as being higher on a vehicle.

That's why the dealer gave you a weird reaction. They don't update modules like this as a matter of course, and probably want a letter from Ford so they are off the hook if something goes wrong applying updates that are not called for in any manual they are looking at.

I have to disagree with you, updates are rolled out to improve issues, if a system or a device is stable and has no issues, then driver updates/ OS updates/ BIOS updates are not released, I update BIOS on devices multiple times per week, we jump on updates on systems and computers as soon as they are out, and from my long experience, they fix issues 99% of the times or improve work.

The fact that you spend $50K+ on a car full of modules but be stuck with devices\updates\drivers that are old 3 years later is no good and not acceptable.

Updates are very necessary and crucial for the car.

 

[SnBGC]

I have to disagree with you, updates are rolled out to improve issues, if a system or a device is stable and has no issues, then driver updates/ OS updates/ BIOS updates are not released, I update BIOS on devices multiple times per week, we jump on updates on systems and computers as soon as they are out, and from my long experience, they fix issues 99% of the times or improve work.

The fact that you spend $50K+ on a car full of modules but be stuck with devices\updates\drivers that are old 3 years later is no good and not acceptable.

Updates are very necessary and crucial for the car.

Why is that? Does software spoil and go bad over time? I can understand that device drivers might need updating but that is because there is a hardware change. The hardware doesn't change in our cars. A window switch should operate the window motor successfully for years and years and years. The software shouldn't wear out and need to be replaced. The infotainment would be an obvious exception of course since the hardware (mobile phone) changes over time. But the on board charger, HVAC system. Traction motors etc are all fixed hardware. Why would the software go bad?

My car worked perfectly when delivered. Well, it sometimes didn't follow the charge schedule and PaaK was sketchy but otherwise it was pretty good. Everything else functioned as advertised.

Then the updates started and it systematically compromised function after function. Sometimes to the point where a certain feature was unusable. That doesn't seem right to me. Many other owners tell a similar story. If software is that unstable and needs constant updating the maybe we should go back to normal electrical control systems that have been proven to be reliable? Just throwing that out there....

 

[ARK]

I have to disagree with you, updates are rolled out to improve issues, if a system or a device is stable and has no issues, then driver updates/ OS updates/ BIOS updates are not released, I update BIOS on devices multiple times per week, we jump on updates on systems and computers as soon as they are out, and from my long experience, they fix issues 99% of the times or improve work.

The fact that you spend $50K+ on a car full of modules but be stuck with devices\updates\drivers that are old 3 years later is no good and not acceptable.

Updates are very necessary and crucial for the car.

Which is fine if that's your jam. But people should be very clear in understanding what they are doing if they are trying to update random modules they are experiencing zero issues for.

This is not like hitting Software Update on an iPhone where the release notes tell you about how some new feature in group FaceTime has been launched, a Safari bug has been fixed, etc.

Updating a random Mach-E module, for which there is no service bulletin or whatever, is more along the lines of getting to this screen on your computer and messing around:

Dealer is, rightfully, a bit reluctant to do the functional equivalent for the Mach-E willy-nilly. If there's an issue to solve, there's an issue to solve, and they will flash the update.

But they are not going to mod the car for fun, or take on the responsibility that they might screw something up in core software when the customer isn't even reporting an issue.

 

[DevSecOps]

Pfft ... that's EZ Mode!

Also "Updates are very necessary and crucial for the car" - Yeah uhuh, that's why cars for the last 60 years didn't get them unless they needed them. Very crucial!

 

[Rich_Maine]

I have to disagree with you, updates are rolled out to improve issues, if a system or a device is stable and has no issues, then driver updates/ OS updates/ BIOS updates are not released, I update BIOS on devices multiple times per week, we jump on updates on systems and computers as soon as they are out, and from my long experience, they fix issues 99% of the times or improve work.

The fact that you spend $50K+ on a car full of modules but be stuck with devices\updates\drivers that are old 3 years later is no good and not acceptable.

Updates are very necessary and crucial for the car.

Totally agree. Bios updates are very infrequent but windows software updates monthly. Ford wants you to be inconvenienced by a bug first before dealer fixes it. We were sold the promisr of OTA updates. Clearly after 2 years that still isn't working effectively. If that was in place, then I agree dealer should push back. But until and if that ever happens, dealers need to support in warranty updates. My fear is Ford changing Sync 4 platform to Google or Apple and leaving us stranded.

 

[moparguy]

Which is fine if that's your jam. But people should be very clear in understanding what they are doing if they are trying to update random modules they are experiencing zero issues for.

This is not like hitting Software Update on an iPhone where the release notes tell you about how some new feature in group FaceTime has been launched, a Safari bug has been fixed, etc.

Updating a random Mach-E module, for which there is no service bulletin or whatever, is more along the lines of getting to this screen on your computer and messing around:

Dealer is, rightfully, a bit reluctant to do the functional equivalent for the Mach-E willy-nilly. If there's an issue to solve, there's an issue to solve, and they will flash the update.

But they are not going to mod the car for fun, or take on the responsibility that they might screw something up in core software when the customer isn't even reporting an issue.

I was literally doing a BIOS update and working on a similar screen when I typed my reply to you yesterday, there was a reason why I was doing that and not my user because I have the experience to do it, same with Ford, we take it to the dealership to do updates on our cars, there is a difference between moding or having fun from doing an update to a module that has an outstanding update, sorry I cannot agree with anyone who claims those module updates are not necessary, if that was the case then there will be no updates from Ford, I am sure they would rather spend the team effort on something else, my fear, is that the list will grow and 3 years later you will have 20+or 50+ outdated and your car will start needing those updates but you find out that your car is not under warranty anymore and it cost you $10K to do those updates, that's my main concern.

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