DCFC in America - it’s falling apart

[Logal727]

Kyle said on one of the Rivian forums that he is incentivized by google to make these videos longer. Personally i stopped liking his videos because:
1. he is a freeloader,
2. he is a tesla fanboy.

https://www.rivianforums.com/forum/...vian-r1t-out-of-spec-reviews.6205/post-163915

Honestly the way he talks to people when he doesn’t get the conversation he wanted, and you can see that in this video, he comes off as a huge dick

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[cargo]

Fortunately, on our road trip this weekend in the Lightning pulling a trailer all of the chargers were working and available:
EA Hagerstown, MD Walmart 2 150kW, 2 350kW
Chargepoint / Potomac Edison, Friendsville, MD 2 shared 120kW (came here twice)
Chargepoint / Potomac Edison, Hancock, MD 2 shared 120kW

I really wish there was an EA station in Cumberland. Would make that 68 a drive just a tad easier

 

[AZBill]

NEVI was announced in February 2022.

GM announced the EVGO/Flying J/Pilot 2000- fast charger plan just last month. Before that, "Ultium 360" was more or less what Ford has done in Fordpass (only not including EA).

Its true the Pilot/Flying J partnership was added after, but GM was already partnering with EVGO, way before that.

 

[SWO]

I really wish there was an EA station in Cumberland. Would make that 68 a drive just a tad easier

It's shocking to me that EA doesn't even have plans to put anything in place there. I'm excited at Tesla opening their network just to possibly be able to use the La Vale Sheetz chargers. Aside from that, you have the Chargepoints at the Frostburg library (out of the way, slow, not a good parking situation) and Hancock (wouldn't want my wife stopping in a dark park at night). I drove past the planned Chargepoint(?) location in Cumberland and it's still nowhere near done and in a run-down part of the city.

 

[daverp]

DCFC is following the typical lead, lag, lead scenario that many businesses see. Build out is expensive and 3 phase 480 power requirement limits some areas. EA and EVGo did a build out to start. VW's investment in EA is spurring a large upcoming rollout plan. EVGo is expanding their partnership with GM, ChargePoint is doing a test rollout with Volvo and Starbucks. Tesla is also starting to do deals for public stations, a very popular rodent-centric gas station chain out of Texas is reportedly getting public Tesla Superchargers.

There wasn't enough non-Tesla EV's to support a massive rollout, now we are hitting that tipping point of EV's and the network is becoming over utilized in some areas, the lag phase. The deals have already been announced and more are getting announced every week, it's just the crews, and permitting to build these stations, it's going to take years to fully catch up and cross back into a lead phase. With the Supercharger network going public that will also help, the details are still light on that but I think Tesla is going to roll that out everywhere as they are going to want the revenue and they'll likely sell you an expensive adapter to make it work.

 

[silverelan]

That was the plan to install L2 chargers, and it was an "up to" dollar figure....basically worthless. This thread is about DCFC. They had no DCFC network plans that I'm aware of until the government would pay them to install chargers.

https://news.gm.com/newsroom.detail.html/Pages/news/us/en/2021/oct/1026-ultium-charger.html

They said in the announcement that it was using federal money. They'd be fools not to:

GM and Pilot Company designed this program to combine private investments alongside intended government grant and utility programs to help reduce range anxiety and significantly close the gap in long-distance EV charger demand. Our travel centers are well-equipped to accommodate EV charging with 24/7 amenities and convenient proximity to major roadways across the country. We look forward to collaborating with GM and the US Department of Transportation to make convenient coast-to-coast EV travel a reality through our national network of travel centers.

https://electrek.co/2022/07/14/gm-dc-fast-charging-network/

did you even look at the SEC 10-Q filing? EVgo has to install a total of 2,340 fast chargers in the next 16 months.


“Pursuant to an agreement with GM dated July 20, 2020 by and among EVgo Services and GM as amended pursuant to an amendment agreement dated November 2, 2021 in order to adjust stall installation targets and expand the overall number of chargers to be installed by EVgo Services (the “GM Agreement”), EVgo is required to meet certain quarterly milestones measured by the number of stalls installed, and GM is required to make certain payments based on stalls installed. Under the GM Agreement, EVgo is required to install a total of 3,250 stalls by December 31, 2025, approximately 72% of which are required to be installed by December 31, 2023. The GM Agreement calls for a year-over-year increase in annual stall additions in each of the next two years before the installation run rate declines post 2023.”

 

[RockwallRick]

It has been awhile since I have DC charged at EA. Is it really getting as bad as suggested in the video?

 

[jbooth]

And so many complain but don't utilize PlugShare and apps of the network to report issues.

This. If you don't report it is broken, you don't get to complain.

 

[SWO]

did you even look at the SEC 10-Q filing? EVgo has to install a total of 2,340 fast chargers in the next 16 months.


“Pursuant to an agreement with GM dated July 20, 2020 by and among EVgo Services and GM as amended pursuant to an amendment agreement dated November 2, 2021 in order to adjust stall installation targets and expand the overall number of chargers to be installed by EVgo Services (the “GM Agreement”), EVgo is required to meet certain quarterly milestones measured by the number of stalls installed, and GM is required to make certain payments based on stalls installed. Under the GM Agreement, EVgo is required to install a total of 3,250 stalls by December 31, 2025, approximately 72% of which are required to be installed by December 31, 2023. The GM Agreement calls for a year-over-year increase in annual stall additions in each of the next two years before the installation run rate declines post 2023.”

Where in any of that does it say fast chargers?

 

[ridgebackpilot]

DCFC is following the typical lead, lag, lead scenario that many businesses see. Build out is expensive and 3 phase 480 power requirement limits some areas. EA and EVGo did a build out to start. VW's investment in EA is spurring a large upcoming rollout plan. EVGo is expanding their partnership with GM, ChargePoint is doing a test rollout with Volvo and Starbucks. Tesla is also starting to do deals for public stations, a very popular rodent-centric gas station chain out of Texas is reportedly getting public Tesla Superchargers.

There wasn't enough non-Tesla EV's to support a massive rollout, now we are hitting that tipping point of EV's and the network is becoming over utilized in some areas, the lag phase. The deals have already been announced and more are getting announced every week, it's just the crews, and permitting to build these stations, it's going to take years to fully catch up and cross back into a lead phase. With the Supercharger network going public that will also help, the details are still light on that but I think Tesla is going to roll that out everywhere as they are going to want the revenue and they'll likely sell you an expensive adapter to make it work.

I suspect @daverp has called this exactly right. When Tesla makes its Supercharger network available to the rest of us, I'll bet they'll equip only a few Superchargers at each site with CCS hardware. That way, there will always be Superchargers available for traveling Teslas, even if all the CCS-equipped chargers are taken.

Both the big Infrastructure bill enacted earlier this year and the more recent Inflation Reduction Act authorized large amounts of government funding to support EV charger buildout. The authors of those bills knew that promoting EVs won't work unless there are plenty of chargers available to relieve range anxiety. It's only a matter of time before that new infrastructure comes online.

 

[ridgebackpilot]

It has been awhile since I have DC charged at EA. Is it really getting as bad as suggested in the video?

Yes, it's getting bad. I just completed a 1,750-mile trip across six Western states in my GTPE. Two of those states had no fast chargers at all. The others were adequately served by EA charging stations. But at every station, at least one or two of the units were out of service.

Still, I managed to get a charge at all the EA stations I visited. But sometimes people were waiting to use the only units that happened to be in service at the time...

 

[MellowJohnny]

Two things:
- If charging infrastructure is considered "critical" (which it is fast becoming) we need adult supervision. Maybe that's Government (I'm Canadian, that's our default ) maybe it's something else, but we need to get adults in the room
- Compensation drives behaviour. If there is little to no incentive to keep the network maintained, it won't be maintained. Ditto for Capex - no incentive to invest means no investment.
- Bonus comment: this could all be moot if Tesla's network fully opens and pushes the amateurs out

 

[ChasingCoral]

I really wish there was an EA station in Cumberland. Would make that 68 a drive just a tad easier

I wrote EA recommending they install a station in La Vale (just west of Cumberland) where there is a Walmart. They actually said they are considering it as this is part of one of their priority corridors. Stay tuned.

 

[silverelan]

Yes, it's getting bad. I just completed a 1,750-mile trip across six Western states in my GTPE. Two of those states had no fast chargers at all. The others were adequately served by EA charging stations. But at every station, at least one or two of the units were out of service.

Still, I managed to get a charge at all the EA stations I visited. But sometimes people were waiting to use the only units that happened to be in service at the time...

Seems like at least half the chargers are out of order at any one time. I’m really glad Out of Spec has called attention to this issue.

@Mach-E VLOG pointed out that Kyle got Electrify America’s attention.
https://media.electrifyamerica.com/en-us/releases/194

 

[mkhuffman]

Every day a new BEV is sold, it gets worse. Especially when the stupid car companies are offering free EA charging. Because of that, people who travel are competing with locals who just want their free stuff.

Free is only good if there is too much supply. Maybe two years ago you could say some areas had too much supply of DCFC capacity. Not anymore.

And here they come, like locusts looking for free food.

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