Highest Amps for Plug - In wall charger

JSeis

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There’s really nothing wrong with aluminum wire as it’s used today in larger sizes. Most feeders and services are now aluminum due to the skyrocketing cost of copper.
The past problems were with branch circuits (smaller wire size) terminated on devices with terminals unsuited for aluminum’s temperature coefficient.
In any case, utilizing a competent electrician is always a good idea!
Yes, aluminum and copper have to be properly sized. In our state aluminum also requires a corrosion inhibitor paste. I think the problem is older homes with a mix of a wiring and manufactured homes that had all aluminum wiring but no antioxidant paste and in particular on the feeder line into the main panel. The code requirement was (back in 80’s) that all main panel feeder connects if aluminum require antioxidant paste.
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SpringsMarty

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Not a good idea to run 40 amps "continuously" on wire rated for 40 amps. Also... definitely DO NOT put a higher capacity breaker on lower-capacity wiring. The whole point of the breaker ... is to prevent your house from burning to the ground.

Breakers can trip for a number of reasons. One reason is heat. They include a bi-metal strip inside that is designed to bend as it gets hot (Basically it acts as a crude thermometer). If it gets hot enough, it will bend the strip far enough... that it trips the breaker off. That heat in the breaker is ALSO heat on your wires. The breaker senses that things are getting too hot to be safe and shuts down the power. You didn't complete charging your car... but at least your house didn't burn to the ground with your family sleeping inside. By putting in a higher amp breaker but not also upgrading the wiring ... you create a situation where as the wire gets too hot to be safe ... the breaker will not yet be hot enough to trip.
Your reply got me a bit concerned. This is 8/3 UF-B in free air. Even thought the insulator is seemingly rated at 90 C, I guess 60 C must be used for ampacity calculations. Most charts show this as 40 amps intermittent, 32 amps continuous. More Google-foo shows that the free air ampacity of 8/3 UF-B is 60 amps, so I should be just fine replacing the 40-amp breaker with a 50-amp breaker, if there is a need. That would allow for a safe continuous rating of 40 amps for the EVSE.

In response to another question about the Mach-E draw, when I charged it with a 40-amp EVSE, it drew 38.67 amps.

The open circuit voltage at the EVSE is about 229 volts. When charging, the voltage drops to about 225 volts, yielding some 155 watts of heat dissipation in the 20 foot UF-B wire.
 

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Your reply got me a bit concerned. This is 8/3 UF-B in free air. Even thought the insulator is seemingly rated at 90 C, I guess 60 C must be used for ampacity calculations. Most charts show this as 40 amps intermittent, 32 amps continuous. More Google-foo shows that the free air ampacity of 8/3 UF-B is 60 amps, so I should be just fine replacing the 40-amp breaker with a 50-amp breaker, if there is a need. That would allow for a safe continuous rating of 40 amps for the EVSE.

In response to another question about the Mach-E draw, when I charged it with a 40-amp EVSE, it drew 38.67 amps.

The open circuit voltage at the EVSE is about 229 volts. When charging, the voltage drops to about 225 volts, yielding some 155 watts of heat dissipation in the 20 foot UF-B wire.
A couple of points:
#8 UF is limited to its 60 degree ampacity which is 40A. It should carry 40A forever without issue. Where you run into an issue is that for continuous duty (defined as 3 hours or longer) the breaker must sized at 125% of the load, in this case 50A. According to code, your wire must be protected at its ampacity, so you cannot protect #8 UF with a 50A breaker.

#8 THHN/THWN2 is rated for 50A, so you could run that in conduit and be compliant - that’s the only normal condition that allows #8 to be protected at 50A.

The voltage drop you are measuring is for the total circuit all the way back to the utility transformer, not just your run of UF. Using Southwire’s voltage drop calculator, I come up with a voltage drop of about 1.2V for the section of UF. It’s really irrelevant anyway.
 


Tom L

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Doing a 14-50 plug on a 60A line and fuse. Which charger gives the most amps for the car while plugging into the 240V outlet? Looks like Grizz-e will do 40 amps. Any others? I do not want to hard wire it.
For two years I had exactly the same set up you are doing, then in October I had the ChargePoint Home Flex installed. The electrician charged me $100 to remove the 14-50 outlet and connect its wires to the Home Flex (you have to hardwire the EVSE for 50 amp charging--can't use the 14-50 plug). Once hardwired, it is easy to set up the Home Flex for various amp levels, 50 being the highest.

Why did I do this? To access 50 amp charging, get a $400 rebate from my power cooperative, and get lower cost off peak charging at $0.0682/kWh.
 

SpringsMarty

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A couple of points:
#8 UF is limited to its 60 degree ampacity which is 40A. It should carry 40A forever without issue. Where you run into an issue is that for continuous duty (defined as 3 hours or longer) the breaker must sized at 125% of the load, in this case 50A. According to code, your wire must be protected at its ampacity, so you cannot protect #8 UF with a 50A breaker.

#8 THHN/THWN2 is rated for 50A, so you could run that in conduit and be compliant - that’s the only normal condition that allows #8 to be protected at 50A.

The voltage drop you are measuring is for the total circuit all the way back to the utility transformer, not just your run of UF. Using Southwire’s voltage drop calculator, I come up with a voltage drop of about 1.2V for the section of UF. It’s really irrelevant anyway.
Thanks for the feedback. Good point about the voltage drop. It only mattered to me as an indicator of how much thermal power the cable is absorbing. I am probably misreading the codes. Table 310.15(B)(17) seems to imply that 8/3 UF-B in free air is safe up to 60 amps intermittently, which is derated to 48 amps continuous load. Am I reading that correctly?
 

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Thanks for the feedback. Good point about the voltage drop. It only mattered to me as an indicator of how much thermal power the cable is absorbing. I am probably misreading the codes. Table 310.15(B)(17) seems to imply that 8/3 UF-B in free air is safe up to 60 amps intermittently, which is derated to 48 amps continuous load. Am I reading that correctly?
That table is for a single conductor (one wire) in free air. UF is a cable assembly, not a single conductor.

Look at table 316.10 (first column) for UF.
 

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I purchased the Enel-X JuiceBox 40 Plug-In. Capable of 40A / 9.6 kW. I don't have the Mach-E yet to try out the charging, but the app / WiFi setup went smoothly.
I have the same juicebox - 40A capable 240 volt on a 14-50. The app gives the option to set the charge rate and whether it is single.phase.or three phase. I am assuming I have a single phase, as most.would at home, unless you.went out of the way to purchase and upgraded cable and have a 48A system. I want to set the charge rate to the max the juicebox and my wiring can handle. On a single phase, do you know if that would be 7.2 kWh or 9.6 kWh?
 

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I have the same juicebox - 40A capable 240 volt on a 14-50. The app gives the option to set the charge rate and whether it is single.phase.or three phase. I am assuming I have a single phase, as most.would at home, unless you.went out of the way to purchase and upgraded cable and have a 48A system. I want to set the charge rate to the max the juicebox and my wiring can handle. On a single phase, do you know if that would be 7.2 kWh or 9.6 kWh?
What is your wire size between the breaker and the JB. If it is #6 AWG then your are good for the 40 amps/9.6 kwh. My setup is 50 amp breaker, #6 AWG wire, NEMA 14-50 plug, and the JB 40. The JB 40 works great for 16 months and the app records your kwh. Mine usually charges at 39.5 amps.
 

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Thanks - I honestly didn't think about the wire with the system. So, this was what was on the side of the 1" diameter 24' cable that I bought with the JB40 Pro (I guess now known as "Legacy JB40 Pro Residential"): "2/C 8AWG (8.37mm sq.) 1/C 10AWG (5.26mm sq.) 1/C 16 AWG (1.31mm sq.) 600v VW-1 OMG."

On the Juicebox site, it seems the JB40 with a NEMA 14-50 240v can handle up to 10 kWh.
 

jgillmer

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Oh, I feel dumb - I misread your post. Yes, I have a 6AWG from the breaker to thr JB. Thanks so much for tolerating ignorance!
 

jgillmer

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Oh, I feel dumb - I misread your post. Yes, I have a 6AWG from the breaker to thr JB. Thanks so much for tolerating ignorance!
And I also learned what the other AWGs are on the charging cable itself - the wires inside to transfer info. The 8AWG (first.in that long string) is the wire driving the bus for electricity to the battery.
 

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I'm new here. What is the advantage of getting an after market charger? The MME one will charge at 32 amps. Isn't that enough?? I will be using a 50 amp breaker and appropriate wire with a 14-50 outlet.
Just a note that there have been a number of posts here that the Ford Mobile Charged (FMC) functions just fine for a while, but seems to error out after a number of repeated L2 charging events. The FMC is physically much smaller than most other 32A EVSEs. Conjecture is that after time the FMC damages itself internally because it isn’t able to dissipate enough heat. This damage happens slowly over time. It seems just fine for occasional use. ??
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