Using your Mach-e to Power electric devices for 'Glamping' or Home Emergency Battery Backup

Triggerhappy007

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I have a generator and have had it for over a decade. Just 2 summers ago I rebuilt all the fuel system, including the bung in the bottom of the tank.

My 1500watt inverter just came in the mail. I will be installing it in one of our MachEs when I get the free time and will run my fridge for 20 hours as "proof of concept" before making it permanent.

The only plus for a generator is it can run a window shaker and the fridge at the same time. Everything else, not so good. It takes one or two afternoons a year running it up and then refogging and putting back in storage and then you have to cycle the fuel.
I'm thinking of getting a 1500w inverter too. Which one did you get? Please post when you have it up and running.
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dtbaker61

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mkhuffman

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But you need to buy an inverter and you will pay more than for a similar power generator, and end up with a much more limited and fragile solution.
I may get a bigger one in the future, or get a whole house generator, but here is what I purchased eight years ago.

https://www.electricgeneratordepot....ric-start-dual-fuel-hybrid-portable-generator

4,000 Watts is more than double what you can get out of the MME, but it is more costly than a 1,500 Watt inverter. And you have to buy propane tanks at $20-$30 each. I have five because one lasts 8-10 hours at the load I put on it and I want several days of power before having to go out and look for more propane. Which I think will be easy a few days after the storm has passed. I have never put gasoline in it so it is as clean as the day I bought it.

I have never needed it for more than an hour or two since that last big hurricane prior to when I got the generator. That is how it works. If you get a generator, you never have another power failure that requires a generator. ?
 


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dtbaker61

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But you need to buy an inverter and you will pay more than for a similar power generator, and end up with a much more limited and fragile solution.
a standalone 1500 watt pure-sine inverter costs around $200. Giving you up to 1500 watts output continuous if direct wired to MME 12v and 'backfed' thru house outlets or run from a powerstrip. My standard range MME has 66 kWhr max capacity.... so, if the battery was full to start, I could crank out 1500watts for 40 hours continuously.... considering 'important loads' in the average residence average 200-300 watts 'continuously' I'd guess that my MME could 'run my house' for closer to 200 hours.... more than a week.

It would be 'better' to have a larger standby system in the garage with a larger inverter some buffer batteries, trickle charge with solar, etc.... but that bumps up the investment closer to $3k, but gives you a system in your garage that you can use ALL the time to power tools and whatever, and stretch out your emergency backup capability 'indefinitely' depending how much solar you put up to recharge with.

A comparable dual-fuel generator would cost around $500,
https://www.amazon.com/Pulsar-Gener...2200BiS/dp/B07J5HD8L9/ref=asc_df_B07J5HD8L9/?
but the 3hp engine consumes 5 gal propane per 8 hours.... so for the same 200 hours of backup, you'd need 25x 5 gal LPG on hand, or a big propane tank w more than 125 gal of propane. considering propane in 5 gal tanks is about $20/tank, I don't think that's a great solution for anybody that doesn't already run their home on propane.
 

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My standard range MME has 66 kWhr max capacity.... so, if the battery was full to start, I could crank out 1500watts for 40 hours continuously.... considering 'important loads' in the average residence average 200-300 watts 'continuously' I'd guess that my MME could 'run my house' for closer to 200 hours.... more than a week.
Did you consider the "vampire drain" that happens when you leave the car on? I am not sure what that is, but the HVB will run down just because the car is on.

but the 3hp engine consumes 5 gal propane per 8 hours.... so for the same 200 hours of backup, you'd need 25x 5 gal LPG on hand, or a big propane tank w more than 125 gal of propane. considering propane in 5 gal tanks is about $20/tank, I don't think that's a great solution for anybody that doesn't already run their home on propane.
Actually you run out to Lowe's or the local grocery store and get a replacement tank. They can exchange propane tanks even if they don't have power. You definitely don't need to keep that many tanks on hand. I have five, and that is more than enough IMO.
 
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dtbaker61

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Did you consider the "vampire drain" that happens when you leave the car on? I am not sure what that is, but the HVB will run down just because the car is on.
parasitic loads from the MME being 'on' look to hover between 12-20 amp x 14.4v = 200-225watts. So yes the 'internal drain' would be about 5 kWhr/24hrs.... which would indeed reduce the duration of backup without recharge. In extreame emergency you could stretch it out by turning it off at night while sleeping I guess.


Actually you run out to Lowe's or the local grocery store and get a replacement tank. They can exchange propane tanks even if they don't have power. You definitely don't need to keep that many tanks on hand. I have five, and that is more than enough IMO.
The scenario I thought we were talking about is 'emergency' where power was out... which probably means stores and cash registers are not open, and roads may be impassible. The comparison would be how much propane would you need on hand if you could not leave your house for 5-10 days versus using your MME sitting in your garage.
 

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But it we connect a inverter directly to the MME without using the buffer battery you use, we would need to have wire that can support the full current load, right?

There are lots of 1500 Watt inverters available, and they are relatively inexpensive.

I think it would be really cool to get a 1500 Watt two phase 240V inverter, but they are much more expensive and harder to find. But then I could plug the car directly into the generator outlet I installed on my circuit breaker box.
You aren't likely to be able to run any 240VAC loads off of a 1.5KW inverter. You can just tie the two sides of the 240V generator connector together and run them from one 120VAC inverter. I would turn off the 240V breakers but the voltage would be zero on those loads if you didn't turn them off.
 
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dtbaker61

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You aren't likely to be able to run any 240VAC loads off of a 1.5KW inverter. You can just tie the two sides of the 240V generator connector together and run them from one 120VAC inverter. I would turn off the 240V breakers but the voltage would be zero on those loads if you didn't turn them off.
correct, you cannot run 240v loads from a single 120v inverter.... but you CAN run 120v loads on both 'legs' of your main service panel if you tie together L1,L2 of a 240v (4-prong) backfeed plug so both legs are energized. 240v loads will not work because L1 and L2 will be 'in-phase' rather than 'split phase'.

If you really wanted 240v, (although that would be unlikely in 'critical load emergency backup', you would have to either add a 'auto-former' to split the single phase inverter output, or buy a bigger more expensive inverter that had split phase output built-in.
 

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correct, you cannot run 240v loads from a single 120v inverter.... but you CAN run 120v loads on both 'legs' of your main service panel if you tie together L1,L2 of a 240v (4-prong) backfeed plug so both legs are energized. 240v loads will not work because L1 and L2 will be 'in-phase' rather than 'split phase'.

If you really wanted 240v, (although that would be unlikely in 'critical load emergency backup', you would have to either add a 'auto-former' to split the single phase inverter output, or buy a bigger more expensive inverter that had split phase output built-in.
You are right, it really isn't necessary to have 240V during a power failure. In-phase power on both legs would work just fine for what I would want it for.
 
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dtbaker61

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You are right, it really isn't necessary to have 240V during a power failure. In-phase power on both legs would work just fine for what I would want it for.
you can accomplish the same thing by making two 120v 'suicide adaptors' and running two extension cords from your 120v inverter, one to any outlet that happens to be on different 'legs' of your service. Both legs will be energized, but in-phase. This is the way you might have to do it if you have your charger hard-wired and no 240v receptacle available for 120v-120v backfeed adapter.

This is why I find it easier to suggest plug-in chargers for homes, rather than hard-wired. A 240v 14-50 outlet is FINE for L2 charging at 32 amps with the (included) Ford mobile charger, and can double as 120v-120v backfeed from a 'generator' in emergencies. Which can be as small and inexpensive as a $300 pure-sine inverter and a 120v->240v plug adaptor to give you access to your massive MME HV battery capacity for emergencies.
 

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you can accomplish the same thing by making two 120v 'suicide adaptors' and running two extension cords from your 120v inverter, one to any outlet that happens to be on different 'legs' of your service. Both legs will be energized, but in-phase. This is the way you might have to do it if you have your charger hard-wired and no 240v receptacle available for 120v-120v backfeed adapter.

This is why I find it easier to suggest plug-in chargers for homes, rather than hard-wired. A 240v 14-50 outlet is FINE for L2 charging at 32 amps with the (included) Ford mobile charger, and can double as 120v-120v backfeed from a 'generator' in emergencies. Which can be as small and inexpensive as a $300 pure-sine inverter and a 120v->240v plug adaptor to give you access to your massive MME HV battery capacity for emergencies.
What is your background Are you an electrical engineer? On The National Electrical Code Board, NFPA?
'suicide adaptors' very bad idea.
This is Life Safety.
This forum is not the place for these topics or suggestions.
You could be putting people's lives at stake.
I realize you're trying to help.
ELECTRICITY IS DEADLY
I don't mean to offend
Be careful
 

mkhuffman

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What is your background Are you an electrical engineer? On The National Electrical Code Board, NFPA?
'suicide adaptors' very bad idea.
This is Life Safety.
This forum is not the place for these topics or suggestions.
You could be putting people's lives at stake.
I realize you're trying to help.
ELECTRICITY IS DEADLY
I don't mean to offend
Be careful
This forum is the perfect place for these topics and suggestions. There are many people here who are very smart about how electricity works, and we share our ideas to help others. Personally I have an electrical engineering degree and totally understand the risks of what Dan is suggesting.

It is called a "suicide adapter" for a reason, so don't do it if you don't know why it is called that. I would not take that approach anyway, as I would prefer to connect into a 240V outlet, like the one I installed under the EVSE I installed. Or the the 240V outlet I installed for my propane powered generator.
 

Garbone

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Hmmm, my thought is just run a cord from the car to the fridge and a fan or two. Anything more is luxury.
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