Mach-E Hands-Free Active Drive Assist PRICING Announced, OTA Update Available in Q3 2021

[ClaudeMach-E]

Yes it is disappointing how the uninformed feel free to spout worthless opinions.

So let's unpack your opinions. First, if you knew anything about insurance rates you would know that luxury autos always have the lowest rates. Get a quote for a MB S class sedan and be enlightened.

And speaking of BS, I don't think your "agent" told you what you claim she said. I think you just made that up. Assuming she did say it, then no one but a fool would rely on what she had to say. Moreover, even if there was a difference in rates between Tesla vehicles with and without FSD, which I doubt, that wouldn't mean the system couldn't kill you. Insurance is based on what the claim is, and having the car malfunction and kill you isn't covered.

Everyone -- including Ford, GM, Volvo, BMW, MB, Waymo, Cruise Automotive -- knows FSD isn't safe. That's why they have separate subsidiaries that are designing self driving vehicles that are. But don't take my word for it, listen to people who actually have some understanding of autonomous driving. Here is what they have to say about the ACTUAL capabilities and safety of FSD and why FSD isn't full self driving:

“This is actively misleading people about the capabilities of the system, based on the information I’ve seen about it,” said Steven Shladover, a research engineer at the University of California, Berkeley, who has studied autonomous driving for 40 years. “It is a very limited functionality that still requires constant driver supervision.”

You can find more here: https://apnews.com/article/california-581df4f669e77269005ea3feede49713. Or just do a search and be enlightened.

The lack of safety in the Tesla driver assist systems are why Consumer Reports rates SuperCruise as being decidedly superior to Tesla's Autopilot, and that rating won't change with FSD because the Tesla system still won't have the ability to monitor and insure that the driver is paying attention. Or are you going to deny that SuperCruise gets a rating of 69 points with Tesla trailing badly at 57 points, closely followed by Ford's lowly Autopilot with 52 points.

And Ford's version we are talking about here is not the Ford Co Pilot assist 360 2.0 it's the previous version

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[ClaudeMach-E]

Yes they did, but honestly I think Musk's fascination with self driving has made him take his eye off the ball from the more critical mission. It's imperative to get society off of fossil fuels, and with the amount of cash and effort that Elon has pumped into self driving has almost certainly taken away from him investing in QC and a more affordable BEV. The model 3 SR is a pretty good value for a BEV, but it is still too expensive for a large portion of the population. Imagine if he had invested in bringing down battery costs 5 years ago instead of self driving?

I understand the point about those that can't drive any more, but uber/lyft go a long way to helping those people.

Lot's of the FSD development is paid by the car owners who have paid $6,000 then $8,000 and now $10,000 for this option that is still being develop.

 

[trutolife27]

for 600 dollars the day you buy the mache. Any way you cut it that price really undercut tesla big time. All over tesla forums and youtube. That is really a great price.

 

[krafty81]

CR absolutely ripped the new Tesla self driving and parking suite. Overpriced and unsafe. Some of the fails are kind
of funny, some scary.

 

[ARK]

I do want to be clear here, IMHO, FSD as it currently sits is not worth the price. Not even close. As was pointed out earlier it's really more of a "Kickstarter" campaign. You're funding Tesla's efforts at autonomous driving. If Tesla succeeds, you end up with an L4 or L5 car for a fraction of it's worth. If Tesla does not succeed, then you are out a pile of cash. If one was to buy a Tesla and not be cool with that, then one should not buy FSD. I invested in FSD knowing that full well. If I lose that money I'd still be very, very happy with my Tesla investments. TSLA has quite literally changed my life massively for the better.

Out of curiosity, what about your Teslas has been life changing, and why are you considering the MME if you are very happy with your Teslas?

 

[SJ_Okay]

@Nak don’t you have a Rich Rebuilds video to down vote or something?

 

[Nak]

Out of curiosity, what about your Teslas has been life changing, and why are you considering the MME if you are very happy with your Teslas?

I didn't say my "Teslas" have changed my life, I said TSLA has changed my life. TSLA is the identifier for Tesla stock. I invested heavily in TSLA a year ago, then again when the pandemic crashed that stock. Both times I was told I was being very foolish. Others online laughed at my stupidity. I took a large part of my retirement fund and bought a Y, a 3 and a lot of stock. I decided to cash out recently... Now my retirement fund is triple what it was in addition to having the two Teslas. We're considering buying a beach house in Mexico for a vacation home after the pandemic ends. Even if we do, our fund will still be much, much larger than it was pre-TSLA. So that's one reason I don't mind investing in FSD.

I'm considering the MME for a variety of reasons I've listed before. Exactly what isn't important. Yes I am very happy with both the 3 and the Y. I am also impressed with what Ford has done, and the Mach-e 1400 proves that the MME is much, much more than a "compliance" car. It's very possible that The Mach-e GT will be even better than my Y. Magneride suspension and a larger battery with higher maximum current output both point to the potential for a great car both on the drag strip and on the track too. I like the key pad for keyless entry; that will come in handy when I go kite surfing. I really, really like Ford's "Rapid Red" and it's all but certain that the MME will have better paint quality than the Y. Once I see a Mach-e GT in person, I'll decide if it fits my needs as well as the Y and my wants even better. If so, I'll buy one.

 

[Nak]

@Nak don’t you have a Rich Rebuilds video to down vote or something?

Yeah, I get it. Fan Boys hate any discussion of the limits of the car they like, and they equally hate any hint that the competition is anything more than a bucket of bolts. Rational people realize every car has strengths and weaknesses. A few months ago I posted on this forum how much better it was than the Tesla forums due to how few fan boys were here. How times change. The Tesla forums still have their fan boys, but it's much worse here now.

 

[SashaLondon]

No one should expect the Ford self Drive to be better than Tesla’s. They have been developing it for some years with massive number of iterations.

 

[First Edition]

No one should expect the Ford self Drive to be better than Tesla’s. They have been developing it for some years with massive number of iterations.

Maybe, except EuroNCAP did find that the run of the mill CoPilot 360 outscored Tesla's AutoPilot.

In the states, IIHS likewise rated the standard CoPilot 360 higher than AutoPilot.

In the IIHS test, CoPilot 360 detected a crossing child and was able to stop completely from 12 mph whereas the Tesla only slowed from 12 to 7 mph. At 25mph, CoPilot 360 slowed from 25 mph to 3 mph, and AutoPilot only slowed from 25mph to 20mph.

And finally, Consumer Reports rated SuperCruise higher than AutoPilot for the second year in a row.

 

[timbop]

The Tesla forums still have their fan boys, but it's much worse here now.

Sadly, I have to agree.

 

[First Edition]

What is collaborative driving?

Here's the 'text book' definition.

Driving Collaboration

Driver Assist systems should offer steering support while the driver maintains full control and work with the driver’s intentions, not against it. The steering input applied to the steering-wheel to override the system should not feel like fighting against the vehicle. When the driver steers away from the middle of the lane, for any reason, the system should stay engaged but always overridable, to ensure the feeling of co-operation, not a hand-over of control.

This is the key point, and the worst part of Tesla's design.

"When the driver steers away from the middle of the lane, for any reason, the system should stay engaged but always overridable, to ensure the feeling of co-operation, not a hand-over of control."

As soon as the driver overrides AutoPilot, even if it's just to gently steer away from debris or a pothole or whatever, AutoPilot throws up it's hands and disengages autosteer completely. It's a huge shortcoming to me in my daily use of AutoPilot.

Tesla received 0 out of 25 points for Driver Collaboration.

CoPilot 360 received 25 out of 25 points for Driver Collaboration.

 

[Woeo]

They have been developing it for some years with massive number of iterations.

And yet

 

[Nak]

And finally, Consumer Reports rated SuperCruise higher than AutoPilot for the second year in a row.

Have you read the actual Consumer Reports article or my post on it on the previous page? Consumer Reports.

I have not read the European report so I won't comment on that.

 

[Nak]

Here's the 'text book' definition.

Driving Collaboration

Driver Assist systems should offer steering support while the driver maintains full control and work with the driver’s intentions, not against it. The steering input applied to the steering-wheel to override the system should not feel like fighting against the vehicle. When the driver steers away from the middle of the lane, for any reason, the system should stay engaged but always overridable, to ensure the feeling of co-operation, not a hand-over of control.

This is the key point, and the worst part of Tesla's design.

"When the driver steers away from the middle of the lane, for any reason, the system should stay engaged but always overridable, to ensure the feeling of co-operation, not a hand-over of control."

As soon as the driver overrides AutoPilot, even if it's just to gently steer away from debris or a pothole or whatever, AutoPilot throws up it's hands and disengages autosteer completely. It's a huge shortcoming to me in my daily use of AutoPilot.

I disagree 100%. I agree it is less convenient, but I feel it is also dangerous to have the autopilot stay engaged when you have manually intervened. This opinion is derived from almost 40 years of professional aviation experience and studying countless accident reports. The autopilot remaining engaged after manual intervention can lead to confusion as to the current status of the autopilot. There have been multiple aircraft accidents with tragic results from confusion as to who or what is flying the airplane. The auto industry should learn that from the aviation industry and not from needless deaths. The autopilot should immediately disconnect upon manual intervention and remain disconnected until manually engaged. Anything else is sheer lunacy.

Just as Tesla naming their system "FSD" can create a dangerous situation, so does this implementation of automatic driving create a dangerous situation. IMHO, it is far more dangerous than the name of FSD, because education can fix the issue with the name of FSD. No amount of education can fix the dangerous flaw in autopilot design we're speaking of. If even highly trained and proficient airline pilots can crash an aircraft due to confusion over autopilot status, what chance does the average driver have to avoid this highly lethal situation? Convenience be damned.

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