The major weakness of the MME (and all non-Tesla EVs) -- reliable, robust charging network doesn't exist

[NewGuy]

New Haven CT to Westerly RI on I-95 is a fast charger desert. They are just starting to install fast chargers. When I go to Newport RI I take my ‘17 Accord Hybrid.

New Haven to Westerly is 60 miles and to Newport is 100 miles. You really need a dcfc en route?

We did a trip from NJ to Westerly this summer. We picked up the Mach E the day we came back, but in planning for the trip I looked into taking the Mach E (in case we got it in time) and it seemed quite doable.

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[Tampamike]

I just did a recent road trip up the east coast from Florida to NY. I was pleasantly surprised at the state of DCFC. I’ll keep it short.

EA stations were about 95% working. At most of my stops, all of the units were operable. That’s up a lot from the last trip.

I was surprised to see some EA’s with 6 or 8 units.

In general, the EA’s weren’t overcrowded either - never had to wait.

I was successful in activating EVGo’s Autocharge on the second try - the first unit wouldn’t talk to the car but I switched and it all worked. I used it at Normandy Square in Jacksonville on the way home and it worked as advertised. It’s a little pricy but I do like the simplicity.

The one negative was hotel charging. The current status quo seems to be two plugs - some work and get occupied early and some are old and broken. I think the volume of EV’s could use an upgrade to at least 4 plugs if they want to offer that as an amenity.

 

[ADDZ71]

Charging will be a bottleneck in many parts of the country for years to come when attempting to travel outside of your home charging area. It is good going North to South or vice versa through North Carolina but don't try to go East West. I live about two hours west of Charlotte and the preparation for what are sometimes trivial trips in an ICE require another level of planning. My office in charlotte does not have charging (other than a wall outlet) today and it about 150 miles from my home. I wanted to drive from my home to near Chattanooga the scenic route and their is exactly one charger that charges above 8 kW on the route and it is not located in a spot that I can return from my visit and charge to make it home. If that one charger (Shell Recharge) is down I am screwed if I were to try and take the MME.

 

[1969Camaro]

This goes for all non-Tesla EVs. You can make the best EV in the world, but it's near useless to take outside it's single-charge range if a reliable, robust charging network doesn't exist.

Being in NorCal with chargers located all over, my wife decided to take the MME from Sac to San Fran yesterday. She needed to stop on the way home last night - late night around 1AM. First stop in Vacaville had only 4 fast chargers (no stop on her route had more than 4), and when she showed up none were working.

Second stop, 1 wasn't working, the other one was charging at 6kW. The fact that neither the MME or FordPass app display the charging rate is another store altogether.

Third stop she was able to charge at 48kW long enough to get the range she needed to get home.

It goes without saying that we're taking the Tesla down to Anaheim this week. Many well-located charging stations with dozens of well-maintained chargers that will hit our 250kW max acceptance rate. She's already considering trading the MME for another Tesla.

Here's hoping the Inflation Reduction Act inflates the number of reliable chargers on the road. Until then, I can't wait for Tesla to open up the supercharger network.

MME is a great around town car. Long trips are a crap shoot. I found that out the hard way. I will rent an SUV for future long trips. Not worth the stress.

 

[Mirak]

I've done 20,000 miles of road tripping now across 6 western states from CO to CA in our Mach-E, and only failed to get a fast charge twice in over 100 DCFCs. But it really can vary. And takes pre-planning and research of backup options to feel comfortable.

All it takes is one busted station to make for a really bad day. DCFC remains the Achilles Heel of non-Tesla EVs. Yeah, I know Teslas have charging issues, too, occasionally. But it’s not the same.

 

[nvabill]

This goes for all non-Tesla EVs. You can make the best EV in the world, but it's near useless to take outside it's single-charge range if a reliable, robust charging network doesn't exist.

Being in NorCal with chargers located all over, my wife decided to take the MME from Sac to San Fran yesterday. She needed to stop on the way home last night - late night around 1AM. First stop in Vacaville had only 4 fast chargers (no stop on her route had more than 4), and when she showed up none were working.

Second stop, 1 wasn't working, the other one was charging at 6kW. The fact that neither the MME or FordPass app display the charging rate is another store altogether.

Third stop she was able to charge at 48kW long enough to get the range she needed to get home.

It goes without saying that we're taking the Tesla down to Anaheim this week. Many well-located charging stations with dozens of well-maintained chargers that will hit our 250kW max acceptance rate. She's already considering trading the MME for another Tesla.

Here's hoping the Inflation Reduction Act inflates the number of reliable chargers on the road. Until then, I can't wait for Tesla to open up the supercharger network.

Amen, this is the reason I am seriously considering selling my Mach E after only 3 months of ownership.

 

[nvabill]

Long-distance driving is why God gave us gasoline.

This! ?

 

[1969Camaro]

Amen, this is the reason I am seriously considering selling my Mach R after only 3 months of ownership.

I would trade mine in a heartbeat if I could find a non-inflated price RAV4 Prime. Really best of both worlds.

 

[awp0]

This seems to be a very regional thing. We have had no major issues in the Northeast. Did they use different model chargers in different parts of the country?

I don't feel that way (living in Boston). My regular routes are to Burlington, VT and Lincoln, NH. The best option on the way to Burlington is a Walmart EA station in West Lebanon that I've never seen more than 50% operational (four total stalls). It's bad enough that I plan my trips to only stop there at low-traffic times. Meanwhile, NH is a charging wasteland, plain and simple. I honestly don't think it's safe to plan a ski trip to any ski resort in NH in the MME.

Hopefully this whole discussion becomes moot soon. There was a "White House memo" that Tesla will be opening their Supercharger network to non-Teslas in late 2022 (which is now). Don't get me wrong, I'm not really holding my breath on the timing and I'm sure it'll be super expensive, but it would help ease planning and anxiety issues.

 

[4sallypat]

I would trade mine in a heartbeat if I could find a non-inflated price RAV4 Prime. Really best of both worlds.

Agree!

My wife would love the RAV4 Prime PHEV as she loves her current Honda PHEV - her drives are all EV but she says she likes the backup of an ICE.

We have an MME ordered and build date is in December so hoping she likes that over the hard to find and elusive RAV4 Prime....

Our last road trip in the Lightning was a mess coming back home with busted chargers (EA) along the way home and said she is not looking forward to her MME

 

[Sneezy]

This seems to be a very regional thing. We have had no major issues in the Northeast. Did they use different model chargers in different parts of the country?

I can't go west from Binghamton unless I go to Buffalo. There is 1 charger out that direction but it rarely works. I had bad luck in Syracuse.

 

[generaltso]

I would trade mine in a heartbeat if I could find a non-inflated price RAV4 Prime. Really best of both worlds.

If you're a two car family, having one of each is really the best of both worlds. For shortish trips, we take the MME. For longer road trips, we take the RAV4 Prime. The last road trip we took to NYC got us the first 50 miles in each direction all electric and averaged 42mpg once the gas engine kicked on.

 

[dbsb3233]

All it takes is one busted station to make for a really bad day. DCFC remains the Achilles Heel of non-Tesla EVs. Yeah, I know Teslas have charging issues, too, occasionally. But it’s not the same.

Yeah, especially if it's the wrong one. I usually try to plan my routes and charging stops so that I always leave a backup DCFC in range. That means stopping more often, and usually leaving around 40% "in the tank" at each stop instead of running it down to 10% as is the traditional EV method. I just charge up to 80%+ (sometimes even 90%) at nearly every DCFC regardless of how much is really needed to reach the next charger. Takes an extra 20 minutes in a 500 mile day vs optimal planning, but it's worth it. I don't use route planners, I do my own planning and nav only from station to station.

But some routes do have that do-or-die charger with no backup for another 100 miles. Those suck, knowing the only backup is getting stranded at al L2 for hours and blowing the schedule. Haven't had to do that yet, but it'll probably happen sometime.

It'll be nice when we get more redundancy. Tesla SCs opening up to CCS will be a big development, even if only used as backups for us.

 

[SnBGC]

Still waiting for mine, so no first hand experience with this challenge yet. Agree that 98% of the time I’ll be charging from my own garage.

where I’m most disappointed in these threads is the spiderweb of apps needed, and where real time state of the chargers are not made available to those traveling that route.

If charging at home or work is your primary method then you will be very happy. If you are buying this car (or any EV that uses the CCS plug for fast charging) with the intent on taking many road trips then expect to be disappointed and have major "charger anxiety" when taking road trips. It take lots of planning and a little luck.

The reason why our DCFC infrastructure for EVs that use CSS is so bad is because there is no good business case for those machines. They exist primarily because the EPA mandated it.

The Tesla super charging network is superior because it is owned by the vehicle manufacturer and they see it as a value add to help them sell more vehicles. Their cars are unstylish and built with little attention to detail yet they sell over 1 million EVs per year. I am sure their charging network is a big part of the purchase decision.

It doesn't matter how stylish or well built your EV is if you can't reliably charge on the road. The promising thing about NEVI is it has the possibility of making these charging stations an amenity instead of a direct revenue generator because the sites will be owned and operated by the business located at that spot. It will take 5 or 10 years though...

 

[RickMachE]

Charging will be a bottleneck in many parts of the country for years to come when attempting to travel outside of your home charging area. It is good going North to South or vice versa through North Carolina but don't try to go East West. I live about two hours west of Charlotte and the preparation for what are sometimes trivial trips in an ICE require another level of planning. My office in charlotte does not have charging (other than a wall outlet) today and it about 150 miles from my home. I wanted to drive from my home to near Chattanooga the scenic route and their is exactly one charger that charges above 8 kW on the route and it is not located in a spot that I can return from my visit and charge to make it home. If that one charger (Shell Recharge) is down I am screwed if I were to try and take the MME.

Don't know exactly where you live, but in driving from 2 hours west of Charlotte to Chattanooga, your issue is probably "the scenic route". You can swing up through Knoxville, or drive south through Brevard, and Franklin, TN, but you can't do much else. I'm sure you've used A Better Route Planner, and PlugShare, to explore your options?

Yeah, especially if it's the wrong one. I usually try to plan my routes and charging stops so that I always leave a backup DCFC in range. That means stopping more often, and usually leaving around 40% "in the tank" at each stop instead of running it down to 10% as is the traditional EV method. I just charge up to 80%+ (sometimes even 90%) at nearly every DCFC regardless of how much is really needed to reach the next charger. Takes an extra 20 minutes in a 500 mile day vs optimal planning, but it's worth it. I don't use route planners, I do my own planning and nav only from station to station.

But some routes do have that do-or-die charger with no backup for another 100 miles. Those suck, knowing the only backup is getting stranded at al L2 for hours and blowing the schedule. Haven't had to do that yet, but it'll probably happen sometime.

It'll be nice when we get more redundancy. Tesla SCs opening up to CCS will be a big development, even if only used as backups for us.

Seems like a process guaranteed to be frustrating and/or waste a lot of time.

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