Mach E GTPE winter range loss

Riveter

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Hello Everyone,

This is my first post in these forums and it’s a question. This summer I owned a Mach E Premium with standard battery. I traded that car and take delivery of a new Mach E GTPE tomorrow. I really like and enjoy these cars and I’m looking forward to the extra power and extended range but here is my question.

Why do the Mach E’s lose such range in cold temperatures compare to some of the Tesla’s which lose next to nothing? I read It online in a recent EV study. Is the battery technology that much different?
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Hello Everyone,

This is my first post in these forums and it’s a question. This summer I owned a Mach E Premium with standard battery. I traded that car and take delivery of a new Mach E GTPE tomorrow. I really like and enjoy these cars and I’m looking forward to the extra power and extended range but here is my question.

Why do the Mach E’s lose such range in cold temperatures compare to some of the Tesla’s which lose next to nothing? I read It online in a recent EV study. Is the battery technology that much different?
Your understanding is not correct. Teslas, in dead of winter, lose just as much, if not more. When temps are in the 30s or 40s, the Tesla heat pump offers some help, but when it's dead cold it does not.

Ford Mustang Mach-E Mach E GTPE winter range loss EV range
 

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Riveter

Riveter

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Okay fair enough. It was just a question. I’m not sticking up for Tesla, I’m on my 2nd Ford EV. I also didn’t write the article, I thought it was a valid question thinking someone may know a difference in battery technology? Ex… GM is coming out with Ultium batteries so I have no idea what that will mean Involving range….if any.
 

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All EVs loose range when it gets colder--tesla just doesn't display that information to the user, because musk said so.
 
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Riveter

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Hmmmm, so which source to believe??
That is the question. I wouldn’t believe anything Musk says. I will believe the owners who are honest enough to tell what kind of range loss they suffer in the cold of winter.
 

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Hello Everyone,

This is my first post in these forums and it’s a question. This summer I owned a Mach E Premium with standard battery. I traded that car and take delivery of a new Mach E GTPE tomorrow. I really like and enjoy these cars and I’m looking forward to the extra power and extended range but here is my question.

Why do the Mach E’s lose such range in cold temperatures compare to some of the Tesla’s which lose next to nothing? I read It online in a recent EV study. Is the battery technology that much different?
I think what you and many other's are referring to is the "stated range" on the dash. In other words the GOM (Guess'o meter).

In the case of the tesla that range figure does NOT adjust according to temperature and it simply shows the EPA range figure for the vehicle (despite the fact that it CANNOT be achieved even in ideal weather conditions, let alone cold weather conditions. In most cases Tesla owners simply change the display to show in batter percentage because THEY KNOW what to expect based on their driving experience under particular conditions, sndbthe stated range figure on the dash is completely useless.

In the case of the Mach-E’s the vehicle takes into consideration many factors and actually tries to calculate your (estimated range) based on how you actually drive, weather conditions, elevation etc..

In BOTH scenarios neither of these figures actually LIMIT you, or tell you definitively what your range actually is, and this is not representative of what you will actually get in the real world. However it's important to note that on the one hand Ford tries to be upfront and even pessimistic about what you can achieve because it's a conservative company, and wants to ensure its drivers (many who are new to EV's) plan their routes accordingly and do not get stranded. On the other hand what Tesla displays is completely disingenuous, and even more so are allot of the fan boys who know this lie about it or avoid the subject altogether.

Bottom line here is this. An electric vehicle needs to use energy (more than is required for actual forward motion) in many cases to produce heat. Whereas an internal combustion vehicle is always (by nature) generating tons of heat which it simply expels into the atmosphere via the radiator. Pumping some of the heat into the cabin when cold does not change how much gas is used because it's always generating that heat anyway. With an EV that extra energy required to make heat for the cabin has to come from somewhere, and that means part of the energy (that was available) to move forward is no longer available because you spent it to make heat.
 

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I think what you and many other's are referring to is the "stated range" on the dash. In other words the GOM (Guess'o meter).

In the case of the tesla that range figure does NOT adjust according to temperature and it simply shows the EPA range figure for the vehicle (despite the fact that it CANNOT be achieved even in ideal weather conditions, let alone cold weather conditions. In most cases Tesla owners simply change the display to show in batter percentage because THEY KNOW what to expect based on their driving experience under particular conditions, sndbthe stated range figure on the dash is completely useless.

In the case of the Mach-E’s the vehicle takes into consideration many factors and actually tries to calculate your (estimated range) based on how you actually drive, weather conditions, elevation etc..

In BOTH scenarios neither of these figures actually LIMIT you, or tell you definitively what your range actually is, and this is not representative of what you will actually get in the real world. However it's important to note that on the one hand Ford tries to be upfront and even pessimistic about what you can achieve because it's a conservative company, and wants to ensure its drivers (many who are new to EV's) plan their routes accordingly and do not get stranded. On the other hand what Tesla displays is completely disingenuous, and even more so are allot of the fan boys who know this lie about it or avoid the subject altogether.

Bottom line here is this. An electric vehicle needs to use energy (more than is required for actual forward motion) in many cases to produce heat. Whereas an internal combustion vehicle is always (by nature) generating tons of heat which it simply expels into the atmosphere via the radiator. Pumping some of the heat into the cabin when cold does not change how much gas is used because it's always generating that heat anyway. With an EV that extra energy required to make heat for the cabin has to come from somewhere, and that means part of the energy (that was available) to move forward is no longer available because you spent it to make heat.
And all batteries perform poorly when cold, and the car needs to heat the battery, using even more energy. ICE vehicles also lose range in the cold, but they are like Tesla and the miles to empty isn't based on reality. At least in the ICE vehicles I have owned anyway.
 

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I live in Southern California. During summer when I charged to 100 percent, I got up to 275 mile charge. I just charged to 100 percent this morning with the temp at 45 degrees, it charged to 245 miles.
 

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One thing to consider is that colder air is denser than warm air, so moving at highway speeds requires even more energy. The problem with the Mach-E is it's not the most aerodynamic; in fact, it's almost brick-like aerodynamically compared to a lot of other cars in its class. This results in greater range loss at highway speeds compared to some other makes.

Of course, everything everyone said about batteries, GOM, and heat pump are 100% true as well. Also, I've heard many cases where Teslas seem to drain their batteries just sitting without being used; I don't think we've ever had that problem with the MME.

Bottom line: No, Tesla's batteries aren't special. They might have slightly better battery conditioning or heat scavenging techniques, but all of that add up to marginal efficiency improvements at best. Aerodynamics is one of the biggest factors for range at highway speeds.
 

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I think what you and many other's are referring to is the "stated range" on the dash. In other words the GOM (Guess'o meter).

In the case of the tesla that range figure does NOT adjust according to temperature and it simply shows the EPA range figure for the vehicle (despite the fact that it CANNOT be achieved even in ideal weather conditions, let alone cold weather conditions. In most cases Tesla owners simply change the display to show in batter percentage because THEY KNOW what to expect based on their driving experience under particular conditions, sndbthe stated range figure on the dash is completely useless.

In the case of the Mach-E’s the vehicle takes into consideration many factors and actually tries to calculate your (estimated range) based on how you actually drive, weather conditions, elevation etc..

In BOTH scenarios neither of these figures actually LIMIT you, or tell you definitively what your range actually is, and this is not representative of what you will actually get in the real world. However it's important to note that on the one hand Ford tries to be upfront and even pessimistic about what you can achieve because it's a conservative company, and wants to ensure its drivers (many who are new to EV's) plan their routes accordingly and do not get stranded. On the other hand what Tesla displays is completely disingenuous, and even more so are allot of the fan boys who know this lie about it or avoid the subject altogether.

Bottom line here is this. An electric vehicle needs to use energy (more than is required for actual forward motion) in many cases to produce heat. Whereas an internal combustion vehicle is always (by nature) generating tons of heat which it simply expels into the atmosphere via the radiator. Pumping some of the heat into the cabin when cold does not change how much gas is used because it's always generating that heat anyway. With an EV that extra energy required to make heat for the cabin has to come from somewhere, and that means part of the energy (that was available) to move forward is no longer available because you spent it to make heat.
More specifically, that "eHeat" is generated by a 5kWh heater - basically a massive toaster. Current comes in from the high-voltage battery, encounters resistance, and heat is generated.

Picture a 5,000 Watt toaster :)
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