1,920 Ford dealers have enrolled in Model e program for 2024-2026 period

[bp99]

FWIW, I think it's great that Ford wants to create a better charging network, more stations are better than less.

More != Better

Charging networks are only as good as their location. I'd go further and say that charging locations are only good if there's several units to make it more likely there's an open (and working) one. Given a choice between routing to a station with 2 vs. 8 units, I'd never choose the 2.

My thought is Farley and the brass/model e team see value in the dealership location for charging as many dealers are near services like shopping, food, etc... From the dealer perspective, it could be an additional revenue source and, as always, having a customer physically present gives opportunity to pick up ancillary business through accessories, parts, service, and new vehicle purchases.

Many dealerships are on busy roads surrounded by strip malls. That's not someplace people want to go take a walk across the street for lunch. People are also not going to want to be pestered by some sales guy while charging. How often are people looking for car accessories? The upsell business opportunity does not exist. Then there's the complete lack of viable profit on charging.

This all seems more about Ford wanting to advertise a charging network. They could care less if it's a useful/convenient network. They just want to have it. If Federal funds are used to subsidize this, it will also be a colossal waste of tax payer money.

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[SWO]

The issue is that they're selling MachEs like hotcakes and would be idiots to slow down MachE production to build Explorers. That's why it was delayed.

 

[dbsb3233]

More != Better

Charging networks are only as good as their location. I'd go further and say that charging locations are only good if there's several units to make it more likely there's an open (and working) one. Given a choice between routing to a station with 2 vs. 8 units, I'd never choose the 2.



Many dealerships are on busy roads surrounded by strip malls. That's not someplace people want to go take a walk across the street for lunch. People are also not going to want to be pestered by some sales guy while charging. How often are people looking for car accessories? The upsell business opportunity does not exist. Then there's the complete lack of viable profit on charging.

This all seems more about Ford wanting to advertise a charging network. They could care less if it's a useful/convenient network. They just want to have it. If Federal funds are used to subsidize this, it will also be a colossal waste of tax payer money.

Agree with all of that, except saying they're "only good" if including more units and better locations. Unless the price is an amazing bargain compared to EA and others (unlikely), I'll probably relegate these to a backup option. Having a backup option is still valuable. Whenever reasonably possible, we try to plan our road trip charging stops with enough left in the battery to always be in reach of a backup DCFC, in case the primary station is full or down. Having 1 or 2 120kw DCFC chargers down the street from the EA station provides more confidence to plan a stop at that EA station with only 10% left. But if the only backup is 70 miles down the road, we'll stop further back at 40% or something.

Of course, far better are charging stations that are actually in good locations with useful amenities nearby. And as you said, that's typically not a car dealership. It's actually one of the worst places I can think of to locate DCFC. Many are on "dealership row" stretching for blocks with little-to-no restaurants around, no bathrooms outside of normal business hours, etc. And in many states they're closed altogether on Sundays... a heavy road trip travel day.

 

[mkhuffman]

You made a great case for why the Ford EV program violates franchise agreements and various state laws, especially related to the DCFCs, but I totally disagree that Ford is a mess.

They are leading the car industry in many respects. The MME is the first real Tesla competitor. The Lightening is leading everyone in the truck market, including (unfortunately) Rivian. The Bronco is one of the most awesome new vehicles released in a decade, from any manufacturer.

Maybe they won't sustain this recent product success, as that is hard to do, but damn. You think they are a mess?

 

[Gloff]

More != Better

Charging networks are only as good as their location. I'd go further and say that charging locations are only good if there's several units to make it more likely there's an open (and working) one. Given a choice between routing to a station with 2 vs. 8 units, I'd never choose the 2.



Many dealerships are on busy roads surrounded by strip malls. That's not someplace people want to go take a walk across the street for lunch. People are also not going to want to be pestered by some sales guy while charging. How often are people looking for car accessories? The upsell business opportunity does not exist. Then there's the complete lack of viable profit on charging.

This all seems more about Ford wanting to advertise a charging network. They couldn't care less if it's a useful/convenient network. They just want to have it. If Federal funds are used to subsidize this, it will also be a colossal waste of tax payer money.

First, this doesn't represent any views of my dealership or Ford, this. I choose to engage in this forum because I find this sort of conversation interesting, and the views are my own.

Wow, that's not a view I expected to see on an EV enthusiast forum.

You're not required to use a "bad" location, in my view, having it is still better than not, so long as one person uses it. I fail to see how having additional options is a bad thing. The general public still goes to places like strip malls to do business. Those places have restaurants, and shops, and lots of things people do. If anything I'd argue the throughput of the average strip mall significantly outpaces the average standalone charging station. Why do you think they put charging stations in strip malls now?

As for being "pestered", do you sit in your car while charging? If you do, what do you think is gonna happen when you tell the sales person that you're there to charge?

The upsell is not big right now, but the trade cycles that dealerships sell on don't rely on the geeks like us, they rely on the general buying public. Understand that there will be a time when the average consumer will be buying and using EVs at a high rate. That upsell/trade cycle is a real thing that will continue to occur.

Viable profit on charging? I'm not up to date on the costs of business in the EV charging space, but what exactly is stopping dealers from charging more than the cost of the electricity? Further, why should you care, you're not the owner/operator of the station.

AFAIK, Federal Funds aren't being used to subsidize any of this, the dealers are, which is the crux of the argument, as other posters have pointed out.

FWIW, Ford isn't a non-profit, of course they want to advertise the best charging network, they also expect to make a profit on EVs in the future, how dare they! They're preparing for the mass market adoption of EVs, and it's smart.

All I'm saying is why yuck their yum to say that additional charge stations are a bad thing? If anything, you should want the "bad locations" to exist so the uninformed use them and you can use the good ones.

You and I would probably agree that Tesla's approach might be more effective, since they can control the variables like whether or not the stations work, how much to charge, and where they choose to negotiate installation. The downside is that ship has sailed, would take too long to start from scratch; Ford likely doesn't want to spend the capital to make their own network, and why would they when they can leverage their existing footprint. It's a faster way to get the coverage right now. I'd love to see them add their own chargers outside the dealer network, and maybe that's in the cards, but for right now, I think this is a good start.

 

[dbsb3233]

Ford likely doesn't want to spend the capital to make their own network

...so they're forcing dealers to do it.

You just helped illustrate the point. If Ford doesn't want to spend the capital on a DCFC network, most of the dealers obviously don't either. But Ford is holding a gun to their heads by cutting off their allotments if they don't.

 

[moparguy]

California has a unique formula for the gasoline used in California. No refinery outside of California makes fuel for California. So big distributors refusing to send gasoline to California is already essentially in effect. Now, if they were refusing to send crude oil to California, that's a different story.

As I said, it was my buddy's company, he didn't go through much details, but he said new taxes and fees being imposed and they are fed up with it to the point where few distributors were debating if they should boycott and teach the state a lesson, I am not sure if it's crude or gasoline, but he said if a boycott is to happen, then gas prices here will see double digits, that was a month ago, hopefully it is resolved or will be.

 

[Glen Boise]

Yet, we need to remember that Ford requiring dealers make improvements is nothing new. When I bought my Ford Escape Hybrid some 15 years ago, the salesman commented how the dealer had been required to invest in additional tools and mechanic training so they could repair and maintain hybrids before they were allowed to sell them. The dealers should not be selling Mach-E's without being able to service them.
The requirement to provide public DCFC may be a steep price for some. Yet, in my city in North Central Indiana, the nearest DCFC is 40 miles away. Nor, do I see any local businesses offering at work charging like we see in larger cities. We, who own homes, may not need local DCFC. Others, like renters, commuters and travelers, do. (Go read the thread about the poor guy with a new apartment manager who will not recognize the previous manager's agreement allowing the guy to plug in his Mach-E.)
The current infrastructure law, funding DCFC every 50 miles on interstates and other major highways, does not help you if your town is not served by an interstate or other major highway with an interchange planned to get DCFC service.
if you do not like the requirements then do not complain about the lack of charging when you travel off the beaten path. Besides, what is GM and Stellantis requiring of their dealers hoping to sell their EVs?

 

[Gloff]

...so they're forcing dealers to do it.

You just helped illustrate the point. If Ford doesn't want to spend the capital on a DCFC network, most of the dealers obviously don't either. But Ford is holding a gun to their heads by cutting off their allotments if they don't.

It's not just DCFC, it's Level 2 charging, too. I'm not saying I love the execution, just that the end goal is good, more stations is better.

 

[dbsb3233]

I think you both said the same thing. They'd have to slow down MME production to make EV Explorers because of limited battery supply.

And it wouldn't even be a 1:1 vehicle shift, because an EV Explorer would surely require larger battery packs than the MME. Probably somewhere between MME and Lightning size. Can probably make 10 MMEs for the same # of cells that will go into 8 Explorers, I would guess.

Which is why Ford is in the process of building battery plants in KY and TN. By the time those open in 2025, they're banking on more/better raw material sourcing being available.

 

[SWO]

I think you both said the same thing. They'd have to slow down MME production to make EV Explorers because of limited battery supply.

And it wouldn't even be a 1:1 vehicle shift, because an EV Explorer would surely require larger battery packs than the MME. Probably somewhere between MME and Lightning size. Can probably make 10 MMEs for the same # of cells that will go into 8 Explorers, I would guess.

Which is why Ford is in the process of building battery plants in KY and TN. By the time those open in 2025, they're banking on more/better raw material sourcing being available.

Agreed.

 

[Ghost Ryder]

How much does the avg dealership make per year?

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