When will Ford make the Lane Change Assist available on Blue Cruise?

[macchiaz-o]

Irrespective of the effectiveness of Tesla’s “driver attention monitoring system”, I thought Tesla’s with FSD (and the latest iteration of SuperCruise for that matter) could autonomously initiate and execute a lane change maneuver without explicit command or approval from the driver?

Autonomously isn't the correct term in my opinion. Automation is better... But either way, a human must be monitoring and ready to correct.

For example a Super Cruise vehicle should follow a plan for a lane change that begins with signalling and waits a beat before adjusting steering. At any point if the driver determines this is inappropriate, he or she stops the signal and/or takes control of steering or pedals. So even lane changes aren't autonomous from my perspective... As long as a driver is required it isn't an autonomous vehicle.

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[Hammered]

Ok

to be crystal clear, you are asserting that, in your F150, it will go into hands-free BlueCruise, with the below instrument panel display and that there is no eye tracking while in that mode?

To be crystal clear, the MME has active, which allows 'hands-free' in limited use cases (pre-mapped road, under 81 mph), but more often than not is in assist mode with wheel torque prompts and eye prompts (CMR).

The F150 has assist mode strictly, which doesn't include eye sensors (CMR) but does require torque prompts (hands on wheel). Yes the display has a blue indicator circle thing indicating when it's on. No it won't go completely hands free as a CMR equipped version will.

I use both of the systems a majority of the time while disabling lane centering where appropriate defaulting to speed recognition radar cruise. The same hardware powers both of the systems. Due to the higher camera placement in the F150, it's able to better see the roads / lines and as such performs better and works on more roads than the MME's (truck is also lifted). The F150 will drive more backroads than the MME will, which is a bit disappointing seeing as how it's the smaller vehicle.

As far as road curve / G cutout, they will both cut out / panic about the same spots though I did recently get the MME handle a sharp curve it's cut out at 99% of the time, not only killing lane centering but slowing by ~7mph before speeding back up to the set speed (limit +10). Though the other lane of travel at the same spot, the F150 has taken back control about 30% of the time and the MME will never work at that spot.

Ford has recently changed their in-vehicle nomenclature to try and call the assist 2.0 function which is hands-on wheel, as 'bluecruise' which it isn't. It's just assist. There's one long stretch of highway here where there's exits in both lanes of the 4 lane divided highway and both systems do the exact same behavior as the exit lanes split off regardless if it's a right lane or left lane exit. They're both running the same underlying code based on behavior, but the F150's higher camera giving it better visibility provides the superior experience.

 

[Jimrpa]

Autonomously isn't the correct term in my opinion. Automation is better... But either way, a human must be monitoring and ready to correct.

For example a Super Cruise vehicle should follow a plan for a lane change that begins with signalling and waits a beat before adjusting steering. At any point if the driver determines this is inappropriate, he or she stops the signal and/or takes control of steering or pedals. So even lane changes aren't autonomous from my perspective... As long as a driver is required it isn't an autonomous vehicle.

Agree that autonomous was not a good voice of words. I was trying to say “determine that a lane change is necessary, and take all steps required to execute the lane change maneuver without a command from the driver requesting a lane change and without requiring driver approval before executing a proposed lane change.”

You said what I meant Thanks!

 

[Jimrpa]

The F150 has assist mode strictly, which doesn't include eye sensors (CMR) but does require torque prompts (hands on wheel). Yes the display has a blue indicator circle thing indicating when it's on. No it won't go completely hands free as a CMR equipped version will.

Thanks. That’s the question I was asking. You are aware that BlueCruise Hands-Free is available on some F150s? I’ve circled the location where the eye tracking camera on an F150 is located in the picture below.

 

[Hammered]

Thanks. That’s the question I was asking. You are aware that BlueCruise Hands-Free is available on some F150s? I’ve circled the location where the eye tracking camera on an F150 is located in the picture below.

Yes, by adding the CMR it turns into bluecruise hands free on interstate. I drive above 80 however and bluecruise doesn't work there, but the 'drag knee on wheel' does, which is what the F150 and MME active systems default to (assist 2.0). The CMRs in the F150 actually have 2 locations... Only the lightning lariat and above have the MME's 15" display available, all other F150s have the 12" except low trims which have 8". You can see the 2nd sensor location on that lightning at the same spot... The CMR can be added to any of the assist 2.0 trucks. Going from the standard to assist 2.0 is a big deal though requiring a new wiring harness as well as the front radar units. I was going to do the upgrade until I got the MME and then realized they were the same systems except the CMR was REALLY annoying. I prefer the 12" screen in the F150 w/ all of the climate related buttons below it. The screen is wider and still retains the older style functionality where apps can go full screen without having the maps stuck at the top.

I've added CF accents on mine though, as well as the 4a TOD transfer case (not pictured). The F150s can basically have any part of any trim put into them with relative ease.

And both the dash and rear of center console have 20a 12v outlets, with a total truck output power of 7.2kW...

Which will charge the MME or another EV, or power a house....

Lightning's 2nd sensor

The F150 also allows cameras at speed in side cards... This is the generator screen showing L1 / L2 (pegs at 3.6kW per leg displayed, actually outputs 3.8kW per leg). While the IPC screen allows other info. Ford needs to allow more info in the MME's IPC (screen behind steering wheel). All of the F150's can display far more info including the lightning like tire pressure, etc.. They're all powered by the same sync4, though they call the 15" screens 4a.

 

[samev]

Read that VERY carefully. Nowhere do they say whether the “new features and capabilities” for current owners will include things like lane change.

This then is false advertising or at least misleading marketing by Ford. They know announcing cool features like LCA and PSA early will increase the perceived value of the MachE vs. the competition. But if they don't deliver as most people expect, there will be a fallout from their broken assurances before too long.

 

[Neil4Real]

This then is false advertising or at least misleading marketing by Ford. They know announcing cool features like LCA and PSA early will increase the perceived value of the MachE vs. the competition. But if they don't deliver as most people expect, there will be a fallout from their broken assurances before too long.

Lol what. This is every manufacturer though, what you bought the car with is what you get. Sure, you can have a hopeful expectation they'll actually provide meaningful updates to your car through it is life, but it s a whole new ball game for everyone other than Tesla. Now that every car has back up cameras, touch screens, etc. new features are what they hope to convince people to upgrade.

It is poor tact, in my opinion, if this isn't available for '21s and '22s, since Tesla is able to do it and offers an upgrade path to get the newer center stack to keep getting updates and Ford is trying to follow their model, but is definitely not false advertising or misleading.

 

[Jimrpa]

Yes, by adding the CMR it turns into bluecruise hands free on interstate. I drive above 80 however and bluecruise doesn't work there, but the 'drag knee on wheel' does, which is what the F150 and MME active systems default to (assist 2.0). The CMRs in the F150 actually have 2 locations... Only the lightning lariat and above have the MME's 15" display available, all other F150s have the 12" except low trims which have 8". You can see the 2nd sensor location on that lightning at the same spot... The CMR can be added to any of the assist 2.0 trucks. Going from the standard to assist 2.0 is a big deal though requiring a new wiring harness as well as the front radar units. I was going to do the upgrade until I got the MME and then realized they were the same systems except the CMR was REALLY annoying. I prefer the 12" screen in the F150 w/ all of the climate related buttons below it. The screen is wider and still retains the older style functionality where apps can go full screen without having the maps stuck at the top.

I've added CF accents on mine though, as well as the 4a TOD transfer case (not pictured). The F150s can basically have any part of any trim put into them with relative ease.

And both the dash and rear of center console have 20a 12v outlets, with a total truck output power of 7.2kW...

Which will charge the MME or another EV, or power a house....

Lightning's 2nd sensor

The F150 also allows cameras at speed in side cards... This is the generator screen showing L1 / L2 (pegs at 3.6kW per leg displayed, actually outputs 3.8kW per leg). While the IPC screen allows other info. Ford needs to allow more info in the MME's IPC (screen behind steering wheel). All of the F150's can display far more info including the lightning like tire pressure, etc.. They're all powered by the same sync4, though they call the 15" screens 4a.

Wow! Cool, thanks for the additional info and details (although I’m still not a fan of “knee steering” - back in college, my best friend had a problem “knee steering” his Granada).

I’ve always thought that Ford should allow more display customization of both the IP and the Sync 4A screen. I can understand why the content of the IP has to be somewhat controlled (don’t want people turning off the speedo then suing ford when they’re ticketed for speeding ?)

I have to admit that I’ve never found the eye monitoring camera to be annoying. I’d much rather have to watch the road and have my hands free. I do understand that it could bother people though.

 

[Jimrpa]

This then is false advertising or at least misleading marketing by Ford. They know announcing cool features like LCA and PSA early will increase the perceived value of the MachE vs. the competition. But if they don't deliver as most people expect, there will be a fallout from their broken assurances before too long.

Take that up with Ford, not me ?
I’m not a lawyer, but Ford’s in a no-win position here. They are selling a product that they’ve said will have feature updates available. They want to get some info out as to what’s on their roadmap, but those are always subject to limitations depending on whether or not the hardware can handle it. Didn’t Teslas require complete hardware replacement to be upgraded for their FSD?

 

[Hammered]

Wow! Cool, thanks for the additional info and details (although I’m still not a fan of “knee steering” - back in college, my best friend had a problem “knee steering” his Granada).

I’ve always thought that Ford should allow more display customization of both the IP and the Sync 4A screen. I can understand why the content of the IP has to be somewhat controlled (don’t want people turning off the speedo then suing ford when they’re ticketed for speeding ?)

I have to admit that I’ve never found the eye monitoring camera to be annoying. I’d much rather have to watch the road and have my hands free. I do understand that it could bother people though.

I've had my hands at 12 on the wheel before and the eye sensor gets mad even when operating in assist 2.0 mode. That's just dumb. Other's complain about it triggering while drinking from a cup. It's one thing if you're in busy traffic or in an area of blind corners, but when your roads look like this, it's just worthless nonsense. On that stretch of road in the straightaway, the 'hands on wheel' triggers 3 times or so. The road is straight, there's no steering input required and to shut it up you have to do put enough movement into it to touch a line. That's just dumb.

and these little exit Ys cause both systems to start heading that way regardless if it's on the left or right. Both the F150 and MME start immediately moving that direction -- at 75mph it's the only entertainment on the trip

This intersection here has a slight right curve to it. The MME likes to head more for the median when going through it (requiring correction) whereas the F150 can see the line.

This is the curve I finally got the MME to go through auto lane centering w/ out panic'n....
It does like to slow to 52 or so. The F150 will hold speed, the MME typically lets off a little.

On this curve, they both panic at the X even though they'll still both start to steer through it. The F150 picks back up right about where the image ends.

I use the cruise / lane centering most of the time. It's cheap fun. Some passengers don't like the random choices the systems make but I find it entertaining.

 

[Jimrpa]

I've had my hands at 12 on the wheel before and the eye sensor gets mad even when operating in assist 2.0 mode. That's just dumb. Other's complain about it triggering while drinking from a cup. It's one thing if you're in busy traffic or in an area of blind corners, but when your roads look like this, it's just worthless nonsense. On that stretch of road in the straightaway, the 'hands on wheel' triggers 3 times or so. The road is straight, there's no steering input required and to shut it up you have to do put enough movement into it to touch a line. That's just dumb.

and these little exit Ys cause both systems to start heading that way regardless if it's on the left or right. Both the F150 and MME start immediately moving that direction -- at 75mph it's the only entertainment on the trip

This intersection here has a slight right curve to it. The MME likes to head more for the median when going through it (requiring correction) whereas the F150 can see the line.

This is the curve I finally got the MME to go through auto lane centering w/ out panic'n....
It does like to slow to 52 or so. The F150 will hold speed, the MME typically lets off a little.

On this curve, they both panic at the X even though they'll still both start to steer through it. The F150 picks back up right about where the image ends.

I use the cruise / lane centering most of the time. It's cheap fun. Some passengers don't like the random choices the systems make but I find it entertaining.

On that stretch of road in the straightaway, the 'hands on wheel' triggers 3 times or so.

if the system is telling you to keep your hands on the wheel, then you’re not in BlueCruise Hands-Free mode? Are you saying that BlueCruise Hands-Free mode “cuts out” and reverts to BlueCruise adaptive cruise control with lane centering at certain points along the road?
There is a road I drive on almost daily, where BlueCruise Hands-Free isn’t available for a short distance (perhaps 1/2 mile?) I looked at the BlueCruise map and, sure enough, that part of the road is not highlighted as being enabled for BlueCruise Hands-Free. I’ve no idea why not - it’s a pretty straight segment of road. I’ve learned by now to resume hands-on driving and have the timing down pretty pat.

 

[azerik]

Looked at the BC map? Where is said magic. I'd love to cross ref. my issues with what I think is 'by design kicking out to hands on'.

 

[Hammered]

if the system is telling you to keep your hands on the wheel, then you’re not in BlueCruise Hands-Free mode? Are you saying that BlueCruise Hands-Free mode “cuts out” and reverts to BlueCruise adaptive cruise control with lane centering at certain points along the road?
There is a road I drive on almost daily, where BlueCruise Hands-Free isn’t available for a short distance (perhaps 1/2 mile?) I looked at the BlueCruise map and, sure enough, that part of the road is not highlighted as being enabled for BlueCruise Hands-Free. I’ve no idea why not - it’s a pretty straight segment of road. I’ve learned by now to resume hands-on driving and have the timing down pretty pat.

Hands free is a coin flip on the interstate. Those are not bluecruise roads, but they are chevy supercruise roads. Supercruise has no lane centering, it's either hands free or standard drive. It cuts off before the turns and before the intersections with stop lights. It was pretty annoying. When bluecruise turns off / can't see good it defaults to hands on but still 'works' in knee drag mode.

Not fond of ford calling the entire thing if it's hands on or not "bluecruise'. It's mostly marketing BS. The system without the CMR isn't called bluecruise but it still has similar animations to it, and still freaks out in certain circumstances aka "resume control immediately" message. They really need to get it all on the same page as I think the system has already had 4 or 5 names. Copilot 360, copilot 360 2.0, copilot 360 assist 2.0, copilot 360 active (now called bluecruise, though referred to as active prep on stickers).

 

[Hammered]

Looked at the BC map? Where is said magic. I'd love to corss ref. my issues with what I think is 'by design kicking out to hands on'.

It can revert to hands on in mapped areas if the road markings are anything other than perfect, too much rain is coming down (this can even shutdown the cruise radar until key cycled), or it just decides it's tired. Even hands on mode will just randomly turn off. Given the number of cars that have the camera, there's really no excuse for it to be behaving this poorly.

https://www.ford.com/technology/bluecruise/

Here's GM's map for cross-reference
https://cadillac-supercruisemap-viewer.cadillac.com/

Example of how GM's system literally will randomly work on roads. It'd literally work for like 1 mile then not, then a few more. It's a mess.

 

[Logal727]

As others have said, there is absolutely nothing special about BC 1.0 except that it substitutes an eye nanny for a hand nanny on geofenced divided highways. This highway mapping creates a geofence within which the hand free may be used - it does NOT in any way enhance the accuracy of lane centering.

Lane centering is exclusively provided by the MobileEye single camera on the dash, and the same system is in many vehicles.

These are facts.

Simple truth is, as long as you are watching the road - which you have to do anyway with BC Hands Free - it’s no more dangerous to do without the $600 subscription for hands free and just employ any number of methods to fool the “hands on” torque sensor in the steering wheel.

Some people use the knee method, but I find that annoying. I have tested a 1.5lb ankle weight strapped at the 10:00 position of the steering wheel and it works perfectly. It works so well that I just leave the weight strapped to the wheel. The only drawback is that it is a little bulky. Someday I’d like to engineer a more elegant streamlined solution. But it sure as hell beats paying $600. I’ll post a video soon.

Now, if Ford wants to give me some functionality that I can’t provide myself with a $10 set of ankle weights from Walmart, I’m willing to consider. But if Ford wants $600 for BC1.0 and no assurance of enhancements like lane changes, etc., Ford can pound sand.

I call those dummy weights

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