Walmart & Sam's Club plans own EV fast charging network at thousands of U.S. stores by 2030

[RickMachE]

Well, some of us don’t have the option to charge on L2s, given we live in condos and the like. Let’s not get too excited about overcharging to solve a perceived problem that doesn’t exist. I’m yet to hear about a person who chooses to DCFC locally when having a L2 alternative. DCFC is already a ripoff at $0.48-0.50/ kWh vs the more typical $0.13 electricity cost in most places.

Guess you haven't talked to any of the owners with the 2 or 3 years free charging that hog the EA chargers?

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[dbsb3233]

Well, some of us don’t have the option to charge on L2s, given we live in condos and the like. Let’s not get too excited about overcharging to solve a perceived problem that doesn’t exist. I’m yet to hear about a person who chooses to DCFC locally when having a L2 alternative. DCFC is already a ripoff at $0.48-0.50/ kWh vs the more typical $0.13 electricity cost in most places.

Most of that price is for the very expensive equipment, installation labor, location, payment administration, maintenance, and the peak-power premium. In other words, the convenience of having 150kw on demand at the places you need it away from home. It doesn't compare to home electricity rates at all (although it naturally invites those comparisons). It's kinda like the price of a 12oz coke bought at a grocery store for 40c vs buying it at an NFL stadium for $4.

As DCFC stations fill up, it is becoming a problem. Especially with low hardware dependability that often turns a 4-charger station into a 2 or 3 charger station quite regularly.

We depend a lot on EA right now, but most of those stations are just 4 chargers. They're only occasionally filling up now (depending on the location), but with the rapid growth in CCS vehicles on the roads, that's gonna be a lot worse 1, 2, 3 years from now. And at least for the next few years, EA is focused on covering more locations across the country, not expanding stations from 4 to 6 or 8 or 10.

 

[GreaseMonkey]

Guess you haven't talked to any of the owners with the 2 or 3 years free charging that hog the EA chargers?

You will not change their behavior by charging more for DCFC. Free is free!! Let's not come up with solutions that make owning an EV less desirable.

 

[RickMachE]

You will not change their behavior by charging more for DCFC. Free is free!! Let's not come up with solutions that make owning an EV less desirable.

Makes no sense.

You said people don't use DC charging when L2 is available, which isn't true - the people with free DC charging use DC charging. So yes, if you took away free charging from them, they might in fact use cheaper L2, or better yet charge at home.

 

[GreaseMonkey]

Most of that price is for the very expensive equipment, installation labor, location, payment administration, maintenance, and the peak-power premium. In other words, the convenience of having 150kw on demand at the places you need it away from home. It doesn't compare to home electricity rates at all (although it naturally invites those comparisons). It's kinda like the price of a 12oz coke bought at a grocery store for 40c vs buying it at an NFL stadium for $4.

As DCFC stations fill up, it is becoming a problem. Especially with low hardware dependability that often turns a 4-charger station into a 2 or 3 charger station quite regularly.

We depend a lot on EA right now, but most of those stations are just 4 chargers. They're only occasionally filling up now (depending on the location), but with the rapid growth in CCS vehicles on the roads, that's gonna be a lot worse 1, 2, 3 years from now. And at least for the next few years, EA is focused on covering more locations across the country, not expanding stations from 4 to 6 or 8 or 10.

EVgo is half the price of EA and ChargePoint and has similar charge rates and better reliability. I'm not complaining about the cost now, but it's already high and doesn't need to be any higher. The solution to the supply issue is more charges, not higher prices.

 

[GreaseMonkey]

Makes no sense.

You said people don't use DC charging when L2 is available, which isn't true - the people with free DC charging use DC charging. So yes, if you took away free charging from them, they might in fact use cheaper L2, or better yet charge at home.

Dude, seriously. Their free charging is not going away with Walmart adding new chargers. Not in the mood for a philosophical argument and splitting hair.

 

[TheSeg]

I expect to see more places that sell fossil fuels to add DCFC as a first-party seller. Not contracting(?) out to a third party like EA and the rest. Honestly it's why I'm shocked Costco hasn't started making efforts into DCFC.

Folks more into the business can provide numbers to prove me right or wrong, but I suspect while the upfront costs are higher, the costs of operating DCFC aren't nearly as expensive as maintaining and transporting hazardous liquids of different octanes.

Perhaps Walmart entering the space as a first-party seller will start other stores to consider the same. I think EA and the rest will still have a space in places that didn't start off with gas stations (restaurants, banks, etc), large chain businesses that have gas stations (re: grocery stores) will start considering being the direct maintainer. At least then my grocery store points may actually become useful again.

 

[dbsb3233]

EVgo is half the price of EA and ChargePoint and has similar charge rates and better reliability. I'm not complaining about the cost now, but it's already high and doesn't need to be any higher. The solution to the supply issue is more charges, not higher prices.

I'm not necessarily calling for higher prices than, say, what EA charges. Just that it should be significantly more than the price of L2 to encourage L2 use and discourage DCFC (except where it's the only practical choice, like a road trip).

Although I will say that DCFC will need to find a price point that's profitable (or at least only a modest loss-leader) for it to be sustainable. We can't live on taxpayer subsidy (or Dieselgate fines) permanently. I don't know where that price point is, but I suspect it will need a higher price in the long term.

 

[RickMachE]

I expect to see more places that sell fossil fuels to add DCFC as a first-party seller. Not contracting(?) out to a third party like EA and the rest. Honestly it's why I'm shocked Costco hasn't started making efforts into DCFC.

Folks more into the business can provide numbers to prove me right or wrong, but I suspect while the upfront costs are higher, the costs of operating DCFC aren't nearly as expensive as maintaining and transporting hazardous liquids of different octanes.

Perhaps Walmart entering the space as a first-party seller will start other stores to consider the same. I think EA and the rest will still have a space in places that didn't start off with gas stations (restaurants, banks, etc), large chain businesses that have gas stations (re: grocery stores) will start considering being the direct maintainer. At least then my grocery store points may actually become useful again.

Costco adding level 2 charger years ago to some locations, and then stopped.

Most Costco locations have no spare space to devote to people DC charging, they are most often packed full. They sure couldn't add them at their gas stations.

 

[dbsb3233]

Costco adding level 2 charger years ago to some locations, and then stopped.

Most Costco locations have no spare space to devote to people DC charging, they are most often packed full. They sure couldn't add them at their gas stations.

I'm less interested in seeing Costco do it because they have a higher population threshold for towns to build in. That lowers their road trip coverage, since road trips often go through a lot of smaller towns and cities where a Walmart exists but Costco doesn't.

Plus all Costcos are membership only, while for Walmart it's only the Sam's Clubs locations. Even though some allow people in to use the bathrooms, it's not consistent.

Of course, the more DCFC the better so I'd still like to see any go in, but in a broader sense, Walmarts make for much better locations IMO.

 

[GreaseMonkey]

I'm not necessarily calling for higher prices than, say, what EA charges. Just that it should be significantly more than the price of L2 to encourage L2 use and discourage DCFC (except where it's the only practical choice, like a road trip).

Although I will say that DCFC will need to find a price point that's profitable (or at least only a modest loss-leader) for it to be sustainable. We can't live on taxpayer subsidy (or Dieselgate fines) permanently. I don't know where that price point is, but I suspect it will need a higher price in the long term.

I'm only trying to drive the point that not all EV drivers are as lucky as you and many others are in having ready access to an L2. When I had one at work, I used it almost exclusively. To drive wide EV adoption, the industry ought to find a solution for those of us who don't have access to one due to living in a multi-unit dwelling.

 

[CurtW]

Would be pretty smart for Walmart to make this part of Walmart+ and people who subscribe to that could get discounts, good way to compete with Amazon

Agreed! But what they really need, if they want to better compete with Amazon, is an improved online shopping experience. Walmart online shopping is fine, but it is not as convenient or as simple as Amazon.

I also hope they work in better pricing. The one time I used EA at WMT, it was more than double the price I paid at a ChargePoint station about 60 miles away, on the day prior - and triple my home charging cost. To boot, if L2 or above and free with membership, I would charge while shopping even when close to home.

 

[roamtheworld]

https://corporate.walmart.com/newsr...n-to-expand-electric-vehicle-charging-network
Walmart plans to install new electric vehicle (EV) fast-charging stations at thousands of Walmart and Sam’s Club locations across the country
As our customers and members continue to look for ways to save money and live better, I am excited to announce our plans at Walmart and Sam’s Club in the U.S. to make electric vehicle (EV) ownership more accessible, reliable, convenient and affordable for them across the country. By 2030, we intend to build our own EV fast-charging network at thousands of Walmart and Sam’s Club locations coast-to-coast. This would be in addition to the almost 1,300 EV fast-charging stations we already have available at more than 280 U.S. facilities.

With a store or club located within 10 miles of approximately 90% of Americans, we are uniquely positioned to deliver a convenient charging option that will help make EV ownership possible whether people live in rural, suburban or urban areas. Our goal is to meet the needs of customers and members where they live and open the road to those driving across the country. Easy access to on-the-go charging is a game-changer for drivers who have been hesitant to purchase an EV for concerns they won’t be able to find a charger in a clean, bright and safe location when needed.

What’s more, with our chargers located on site with our Supercenters, Neighborhood Markets and Sam’s Clubs, we can offer customers and members the convenience of being able to pick up essentials for their families or grab a bite to eat while they charge. And in line with our purpose, we aim to offer Every Day Low Price charging – helping ease transportation costs, still the second highest household cost for much of our country.

At the same time, as more drivers transition to EVs, our network growth will help expand domestic EV charging capacity across states. We see our commitment today as a natural extension of our work to help customers and members live better, easier and more sustainable lives – a big win for busy families and drivers everywhere, our country and the planet.

This plan marks the latest investment in our efforts to transform our business and product supply chains to be more regenerative, in this case helping reduce emissions and increase efficiencies for customers. For example, we announced tests across our supply chain vehicle and fuel classes toward our goal of achieving zero emissions by 2040. And as of last year, many of our W+ customers have already been receiving their deliveries via electric vehicles.

The way vehicle ownership looks is changing fast, and so is our business. Today, we are as known for convenience as we are for Every Day Low Price. We are committed to providing customers, members, associates, suppliers and our communities at large with the services they need and want, in a way that fits their lifestyle – making EV ownership easy and simple is no exception.

 

[AZBill]

EVgo is half the price of EA and ChargePoint and has similar charge rates and better reliability. I'm not complaining about the cost now, but it's already high and doesn't need to be any higher. The solution to the supply issue is more charges, not higher prices.

I guess EVGO is cheaper, if you charge between 12am and 8am. These are the prices in AZ, not really any different than EA.

 

[Mirak]

...by 2030...

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