MME has been around for 3 years, Battery lost?

[lincoln81]

hey folks, wondering what kind of battery lost you are experiencing with your MME, they have been around for 3 ish years now.

I have a co worker with a 21 model Y and he has lost 21% in 2 years, with 160k (100 miles) on his, seems pretty wild

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[dtbaker61]

hey folks, wondering what kind of battery lost you are experiencing with your MME, they have been around for 3 ish years now.

I have a co worker with a 21 model Y and he has lost 21% in 2 years, with 160k (100 miles) on his, seems pretty wild

measuring range on any given day or trip is really not very reflective of battery capacity or health; too many variables with conditions and temps.

measuring battery 'health' may be more effective; but you need a OBD reader to access the data (stored in your car) which keeps track of cell 'health'. This is the number Ford would look at for any warranty claim.

I would expect that most MME, including early ones coming up on 3 years/30,000 miles use or so will show something over 90% capacity still. My car was delivered 2/26/21, and I have just over 25k miles on it; the HVStateOfHealth= 94.5% according to the data I can see via CarScanner. If your co-worker has 100,000 miles on, it could very well be down to 80% of original capacity, and still be 'in warranty'.

 

[AKgrampy]

hey folks, wondering what kind of battery lost you are experiencing with your MME, they have been around for 3 ish years now.

I have a co worker with a 21 model Y and he has lost 21% in 2 years, with 160k (100 miles) on his, seems pretty wild

Somebody does have a tread on this and the losses reported were right about as expected.

 

[JohnFoxeSheets]

I've only had my MME for 15 months, the state of health when I last checked was 98 or 99% if I recall correctly, so not really a concern. This is the thread Mike mentioned.

 

[RickMachE]

It's the mileage, not the age, that's really going to show it.

The warranty is for 70%, or greater, at 8 years / 100,000 miles. Ford expects to beat that, even for battery "abusers" (charge to 100%, DC fast charge all the time, etc.).

 

[DevSecOps]

It's the mileage, not the age, that's really going to show it.

So, the studies of over 6000 battery packs with the same chemistry that say age over mileage are wrong? Do you have any such studies that say mileage is more detrimental than age?

 

[RickMachE]

So, the studies of over 6000 battery packs with the same chemistry that say age over millage are wrong? Do you have any such studies that say millage is more detrimental than age?

Mileage (sp), and I said "really going to show it", not "miles is more detrimental than age".

My truck is 13 months old. Had 461 miles on it when I bought it last month. 100% battery health. Had I driven it for 13 months I'd expect it to not be 100%.

OP's friend has a 2 year old vehicle with substantial loss, and 100,000 miles. You don't think the mileage had a more severe impact than 2 years of age?

 

[DevSecOps]

Mileage (sp), and I said "really going to show it", not "miles is more detrimental than age".

Not sure I follow your logic there, but okay. There are many people on this forum with vehicles that are older than mine with 1/3 the miles and I have a higher SOH. So, in those cases the mileage is not showing it, age is showing it. I think it's a fair question to want to know where 3yo battery packs stand.

As for his friend at 160k miles, c'mon... No one is saying that charging cycles do nothing to SOH, and at 160k that's a shit load of them. I could say store a MME at 100% SOC in 115F ambient and let's see where it is in a year, but that's an extreme and not at all apples to apples.

 

[RickMachE]

Just checked.

Mach-E, with 9,119 miles, and 32 DC fast charges, has 100% SOC. Battery is 16.36 months old.

Lightning, with 1,133 miles, and 3 DC fast charges, has 100% SOC. Battery is 13.63 months old.

Extrapolating out, at 2 years, with no where near 100,000 miles, I would expect barely any change. Therefore, my non-scientific, non-engineering, seat-of-the-pants expertise says that the Tesla owner with a 2 year old vehicle and 100,000 miles can point to mileage for his 21% loss.

Or not.

 

[DevSecOps]

Just checked.

Mach-E, with 9,119 miles, and 32 DC fast charges, has 100% SOC. Battery is 16.36 months old.

Lightning, with 1,133 miles, and 3 DC fast charges, has 100% SOC. Battery is 13.63 months old.

Extrapolating out, at 2 years, with no where near 100,000 miles, I would expect barely any change. Therefore, my non-scientific, non-engineering, seat-of-the-pants expertise says that the Tesla owner with a 2 year old vehicle and 100,000 miles can point to mileage for his 21% loss.

Or not.

1 - His friend has 160k which is way more than 100k. I would expect that yes, his degradation is from charge cycles. Again, he's an extreme and normally we don't reference extremes when trying to get normal data.

2 - Your data doesn't coincide with most other forum members on Mike's thread. You might need a new scanner or some glasses ?

3 - Why do you even own a lighting if you drive it less than 100 miles a month?

 

[RickMachE]

1 - His friend has 160k which is way more than 100k. I would expect that yes, his degradation is from charge cycles. Again, he's an extreme and normally we don't reference extremes when trying to get normal data.

2 - Your data doesn't coincide with most of other forum members on Mike's thread. You might need a new scanner or some glasses ?

3 - Why do you even own a lighting if you drive it less than 100 miles a month?

1) No, he has 100,000 miles (160,000km).

2) I can see it just fine.

3) I just bought it. Had it less than 30 days. 2022 demo with 461 miles on it when I bought it. No deletes, full tax credit. And, BECAUSE I WANTED IT.

 

[SnBGC]

hey folks, wondering what kind of battery lost you are experiencing with your MME, they have been around for 3 ish years now.

I have a co worker with a 21 model Y and he has lost 21% in 2 years, with 160k (100 miles) on his, seems pretty wild

2021 FE
73,000 miles
Charge to 100% displayed every day.
Observe almost 4% range loss so far.

 

[DevSecOps]

1) No, he has 100,000 miles (160,000km).

3) I just bought it. Had it less than 30 days. 2022 demo with 461 miles on it when I bought it. No deletes, full tax credit. And, BECAUSE I WANTED IT.

Okay, I'm on mobile so I didn't see he was in Canada, so yeah it's probably 100k miles which he wrote very strangely. I still prefer scientific studies over hearsay and I still think the OPs question is valid although we have other threads on this already.

I'm all for you spending your money however you want, it was just a question out of curiosity. No need to yell...

My personal opinion has always been that people should just drive the damn car and stop worrying about SOH unless you have some anomaly that could indicate a problem. Cars are meant to be driven and storing it away does nothing good for it, so drive it.

 

[dtbaker61]

2021 FE
73,000 miles
Charge to 100% displayed every day.
Observe almost 4% range loss so far.

what do you observe to indicate 4% capacity loss? just wondering how you arrived at that.

 

[dtbaker61]

... No one is saying that charging cycles do nothing to SOH, ... not at all apples to apples.

lithium battery 'state of health' is super complex. It's definitely not just time, miles, or cycles. It can be affected by number of discharge events to near-zero that may zap a few out of balance cells that have less capacity than others, or number of high-current WOT events that grow dendrites, or number of times the vehicle was charged to 100% hot, and cooled to or below freezing overnight..... etc. etc. etc.

I wish I knew how the SoH number we see in OBD is calculated, but even that is an approximation since we do not drive in laboratory conditions.

The only real way to measure actual capacity of the pack is to charge to some 'near full' voltage, and measure actual energy expended to get down to some 'near empty' voltage.... all at some specific ambient temperature and output power.

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