📈 Mach-E Q2 2023 Results: 8,633 Sales / 38,497 Produced

[hprose]

I think the loss to GM will only get worse as their slate of Ultium EVs begin to hit showrooms.

GM shut down its 1 EV seller, the Bolt end of 23. GM numbers will plummet. MME had no production for a couple of months and has now ramped up. Can’t sell what you don’t produce. Tesla made 13,000 more than they sold. That is meaningless unless it continues over a long time causing a very large inventory buildup.

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[thenew3]

I noticed one dealer in the SF bay area has 126 MME in inventory. 102 on the lot and 24 in transit. They're offering $3k off as a starting point.

 

[curtisfinney]

I think the loss to GM will only get worse as their slate of Ultium EVs begin to hit showrooms.

I’m not sure about that. While Tesla and Rivian can get away with not offering Apple CarPlay and Android Auto, the legacy automakers can’t. The price sensitive will go with a Tesla in spite of Elon.

I know my in-laws and other baby-boomers may not see this as critical, but Gen Xers and younger will (Apple reports this as high as 79% of new car buyers - would like to see this number from an independent organization)

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/07/22/app...rojan-horse-into-the-automotive-industry.html

 

[MellowJohnny]

GM shut down its 1 EV seller, the Bolt end of 23. GM numbers will plummet. MME had no production for a couple of months and has now ramped up. Can’t sell what you don’t produce. Tesla made 13,000 more than they sold. That is meaningless unless it continues over a long time causing a very large inventory buildup.

No doubt the Bolt(s) made up the vast majority (all?) of sales, but that's because it was their only real BEV option for years. Consumers will have much more choice at GM - Lyriq / Equinox / Blazer / Silverado / Hummer. Granted the Bolt replacement Equinox is more money, but there will be more than double the choice at GM vs. Ford.

Ford has two consumer options...with nothing new announced for N.A.

 

[Guss-E 2021]

I noticed one dealer in the SF bay area has 126 MME in inventory. 102 on the lot and 24 in transit. They're offering $3k off as a starting point.

So of course there are going to be basic add-ons and fees, etc. But if we take just that number and deduct $3K and the $3,750 tax credit, we are talking something in the area of $36,250 for a Mach-E. I have an AWD Premium so I don't know what you give up on the select but that seems like a good price for BEV of the Mach-E's size even at a lower range. So I'm not sure price is an issue but who knows.

 

[Guss-E 2021]

Ford has two consumer options...with nothing new announced for N.A.

I really wish they'd bring over that European Explorer EV. I think it would sell very well.

 

[superdave80]

I went to Ford Fairfield over the weekend for my 10K maintenance. I saw about 30 Mach-E's parked on the lot and their website shows they're offering 1K off. I wonder what Ford's next move is

My local dealer's website showed several Mach-Es available, yet still was showing a $10k markup on one of their GTs. I swear they think it's still 2021...

 

[thenew3]

So of course there are going to be basic add-ons and fees, etc. But if we take just that number and deduct $3K and the $3,750 tax credit, we are talking something in the area of $36,250 for a Mach-E. I have an AWD Premium so I don't know what you give up on the select but that seems like a good price for BEV of the Mach-E's size even at a lower range. So I'm not sure price is an issue but who knows.

Don't forget state, local and utility rebates. In CA, I think there are up to $7,500 rebate for EV (depending on income level and MSRP). Where I'm located, Between Federal, State, Local, Utility rebates, there's up to $21,250 rebate for a new 2023 MME (depending on income level). Add that to whatever Ford is offering for discounts (currently it seems $3k at this dealer), one could theoretically get a base MME Select RWD for well under $20k.

 

[kindofblue]

There are now 6 MMEs at our local Ford dealer in Arroyo Grande. It wasn't too long ago that there were few, if any on the lot for sale.

 

[dbsb3233]

I noticed one dealer in the SF bay area has 126 MME in inventory. 102 on the lot and 24 in transit. They're offering $3k off as a starting point.

My mid-size dealer has about 8 sitting on the lot.

I'm guessing the loss of half the tax credit really hurt. Probably had a surge of buyers trying to get in before the deadline for the $7500, then a glut built up after (including special order cancellations that arrived too late and pissed buyers off).

Even though $3750 isn't massive, it ain't nothing either. It's also an emotional thing, grating at people having to "settle" for half the credit when other vehicles get the full credit.

Could be worse though. At least they're not Hyundia/Kia that got totally screwed and dealers stuck with rows of EVs.

 

[ThatGuyLando]

Are these actual sales? Or do they count someone's $500 deposit as a sale?

 

[dbsb3233]

For the fun of it I checked my dealer's inventory again. Of the 8 Mach-E's in stock, 2 are FCTP demos, and the other 6 are all Special Orders built in March/April prior to the April 18 tax credit deadline where the credit got halved.

 

[DevSecOps]

Are these actual sales? Or do they count someone's $500 deposit as a sale?

They are deliveries, meaning someone took possession of the vehicle.

I’m not sure about that. While Tesla and Rivian can get away with not offering Apple CarPlay and Android Auto, the legacy automakers can’t. The price sensitive will go with a Tesla in spite of Elon.

The numbers just don't show that ACP/AA are that important. I really don't think age is going to impact that at all. Most of my friends are in their late 20s to late 30s and I don't think any care about ACP. As long as Apple music, Spotify, YouTube music etc play they don't care about anything else.

Here's the YTD US stats. The top 4 don't have ACP/AA:

 

[dbsb3233]

The numbers just don't show that ACP/AA are that important. I really don't think age is going to impact that at all. Most of my friends are in their late 20s to late 30s and I don't think any care about ACP. As long as Apple music, Spotify, YouTube music etc play they don't care about anything else.

Here's the YTD US stats. The top 4 don't have ACP/AA:

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That may be true, but most of those buyers (and all US buyers) are still buying ICE or hybrid. Especially the younger people who don't have the money for an expensive EV. I don't think we can read anything into ACP/AA by looking only at the small subset of the market that is EVs. A subset who's volume is not determined by anything like ACP/AA, but rather by battery supply and the migration plan for each manufacturer. In other words, Tesla sells way more EVs right now not because of anything to do with ACP/AA, but simply because they started ramping up years before the rest.

 

[DevSecOps]

That may be true, but most of those buyers (and all US buyers) are still buying ICE or hybrid. Especially the younger people who don't have the money for an expensive EV. I don't think we can read anything into ACP/AA by looking only at the small subset of the market that is EVs. A subset who's volume is not determined by anything like ACP/AA, but rather by battery supply and the migration plan for each manufacturer. In other words, Tesla sells way more EVs right now not because of anything to do with ACP/AA, but simply because they started ramping up years before the rest.

I'm gonna have to respectfully disagree in part. I think we both agree on the younger crowd. My younger friends aren't buying EVs, but even with the ICE vehicles they buy I've never heard one say they need or want ACP/AA. The restraints are more so budgetary. Where I disagree is in the EV sales numbers. The average EV owner is in their mid 50s and makes 6 digits according to recent data. It's not nearly as much of a budgetary issue for them. The vehicles with ACP/AA are well known, from very well know manufacturers. People are choosing to put their money into vehicles without it. While I suppose some might like to have it in a Tesla, for example, it wasn't a deal breaker, enough to go to VW, Ford, Hyundai etc and the numbers, especial production vs delivery, prove that. There's no wait for an MME, but there is for Tesla, yet they go Tesla. The MME reporting a YoY loss and getting beat by a 100k truck proves, in my opinion, that people don't care about ACP/AA as much as some think.

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