Ford Please Fix These Problems: Out of Spec Kyle

[timbop]

Yes, his reviews do tend to be too long, but otherwise he did a good job.

• Agree that Ford needs to extend the HVBJB warranty - it is ultimately a design flaw and in lieu of a recall the right thing to do is a lifetime warranty
• A default L2 max charge percent is an oversight that should be fixed
• Agree that the thermal management is an issue, but since it can't be fixed in software there's no use suggesting a change
• The rest felt like nitpicking

*** EDIT
Actually, the pricing is something Ford needs to look at also. Originally the CR1 was a "cheaper" extended range premium RWD, with a few missing amenities. That's why I chose it, but now that they've made it AWD the "cheapest" ER is the premium RWD and the RT1 is the same price as a premium AWD ER.

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[Kamuelaflyer]

I'll summarize his points here. I'm trying to paraphrase his points as neutral as possible without adding any additional color. Discuss below.

Things that he doesn't like about the Mach E

1. Price. He claims the Model Y is about $10k less and you get more from a model Y
2. In order to precondition the cabin, you have to "remote start" the vehicle. He would rather have a dedicated precondition state
3. When you open the car, it doesn't immediately turn on the screens and climate control
4. There is no "easy way" to set a max charging % for the vehicle, you have to create profiles based on location
5. He states that all early Mach E's, the High voltage junction box will eventually die, and he states that he has personally seen examples of post-fix new parts also failing
6. They have the most conservative current limiting in / out of the battery of all EVs. This shows up in a poor charging curve, and it shows in the "5 second limit" of the GT. He claims this is because Ford cheaped out and doesn't have "thermal sensors everywhere"
7. Another complaint about the charging curve not being "class leading". He says he expects an EV to only be at a station 10 -15 minutes and be charged
8. He doesn't like when the car is running and he leaves it honks twice at him. He would rather the car automatically immediately shut off when he gets out the car
9. He wants mag ride to be an option on the premium trim. He claims there is no traction on the car and it bounces all over.
10. (Alyssa's complaint) There is no dedicated "pet mode". She claims in order to do this, you must leave the car on, leave your keys in it, then from the door panel lock the doors. Then, the app doesn't tell you it is on in this mode. (Kyle adds) 90% of the time on a trip, he gets out of the car goes in a store for 10 minutes, and comes back. Wants the car to stay cool not have to pull out an app, wait for it to connect, remote start it; etc.

Things Mach E does well / he loves

1. (Alyssa) Interior - Looks, seat comfort (besides the suspension)
2. Range is great; he's happy about the NACs announcement; gives Ford much credit for that decision
3. Bluecruise 1.2 is fantastic; Alyssa prefers BC 1.2 over Tesla. He can't figure out what the difference is between 1.2 and 1.3
4. Door handles are great; he loves the dial on the screen
5. The reason why the car has a great design, great interior, great range is because Ford put in a lot of effort - the forethought, putting the Mustang name on it (he devolves slightly into hating on the start button here as well)

Thanks for the summary, it's appreciated. Kyle tends to drag out a 3-minute topic into a PhD dissertation-length video.

As for his complaints, I personally agree with number 4. The rest are either overblown or nonissues to me or only partly true (HVBJB, there's no evidence that every "early" build will have a failure). But there's no reason his comments can't serve as the basis for a discussion.

 

[kltye]

I don't get the want/need for the car to turn on when the doors are opened or whatever. Sometimes I just want to retrieve something in the car. Sometimes I'm just sitting with it off because the weather is nice and I don't need climate with the windows down (I don't drive with windows down, but that's my choice - I don't care how anyone else might do it). Yes, having a dedicated mode/button for "always-on climate" would be very nice and is something I'd want - but that has nothing to do with a start/stop button. It's literally a solution looking for a problem. (Having a remote start from the fob like cars from yesteryear would be real nice, because needing to open any app just for this is monumentally stupid)

There also times where I've left the driver's seat with my fob while my other half has to drive but she forgot her fob. It's nice to get a reminder. Yes it's annoying if you're doing it on purpose - which is why it's nice to... yes, have an option! That's what I'd fault Ford for - we need to be able to turn things on/off (easily). The charge limit and charge speed amperage on L2 are things are most EVs have, and yet Ford thinks its owners are little children unable to comprehend options.

I don't get the Not-A-Tesla crowd. They might have great ideas/opinions, but their diehard "all EVs must behave like Teslas or they're shit" has gotten real old.

 

[silverelan]

@OutofSpecKyle was pretty spot on. Some of the items seemed more like minor gripes than true criticisms but I don't think Kyle was wrong, especially about the high price and charging.

Charging speed/time is definitely something that needs to be improved! I'm forever baffled by so many people on the forum saying it's not a big deal even though we're taking literally twice as long to charge as many other similar EVs. I find myself waiting about 8-10 minutes on a deep charge session for the car to finish.

 

[stealthytolkien]

I purchased this (non-Tesla) car with an almost complete understanding of what I was about to gain and what I was gonna give up, I feel like now that I have the car, if I just get in and drive, I derive the most amount of pleasure. Ignorance is bliss. And this is after owning a Tesla for 5 years.

The forum is generally great to post problems / questions and provide responses if I see a question that I can answer correctly, but the more nitpick videos and non-stop deliberation and criticism I consume, the more anxious I get about the purchase. I almost cancelled my order after reading that overly sensationalized 5-second poll 100 page post. But a few of you assured me that it is a non issue for most. And it indeed turned out to be just that for me.

My wife is as less caring about technology as one can be, and since it’s officially her car, she has been driving it more and more each day and she loves the car unconditionally! She has read nothing about it. She only knows what I tell her about the cool features of the car but all she cares about is being able to plug the car in the garage, pairing her phone to it to take calls, operate the FM radio, and use the maps.

I envy her. And I should learn that from her. Haha.

 

[phil]

I'm forever baffled...

I think I can clear this up for you. I charge at home, and the battery is full by 3AM. If they doubled the charging speed, it could be finished by midnight. I've never charged from DC, and probably never will. So charge speed is not a big deal for me, it's not even a little deal. And there are plenty of others with similar charging habits and lack of problems.

 

[SWO]

I'd like the car to DCFC better, but all my worst charging experiences have been due to the chargers, not the car. In the grand scheme of things that's a bigger issue IMO.

 

[Auto Motive]

I'll summarize his points here. I'm trying to paraphrase his points as neutral as possible without adding any additional color. Discuss below.

Things that he doesn't like about the Mach E

1. Price. He claims the Model Y is about $10k less and you get more from a model Y
2. In order to precondition the cabin, you have to "remote start" the vehicle. He would rather have a dedicated precondition state
3. When you open the car, it doesn't immediately turn on the screens and climate control
4. There is no "easy way" to set a max charging % for the vehicle, you have to create profiles based on location
5. He states that all early Mach E's, the High voltage junction box will eventually die, and he states that he has personally seen examples of post-fix new parts also failing
6. They have the most conservative current limiting in / out of the battery of all EVs. This shows up in a poor charging curve, and it shows in the "5 second limit" of the GT. He claims this is because Ford cheaped out and doesn't have "thermal sensors everywhere"
7. Another complaint about the charging curve not being "class leading". He says he expects an EV to only be at a station 10 -15 minutes and be charged
8. He doesn't like when the car is running and he leaves it honks twice at him. He would rather the car automatically immediately shut off when he gets out the car
9. He wants mag ride to be an option on the premium trim. He claims there is no traction on the car and it bounces all over.
10. (Alyssa's complaint) There is no dedicated "pet mode". She claims in order to do this, you must leave the car on, leave your keys in it, then from the door panel lock the doors. Then, the app doesn't tell you it is on in this mode. (Kyle adds) 90% of the time on a trip, he gets out of the car goes in a store for 10 minutes, and comes back. Wants the car to stay cool not have to pull out an app, wait for it to connect, remote start it; etc.

Things Mach E does well / he loves

1. (Alyssa) Interior - Looks, seat comfort (besides the suspension)
2. Range is great; he's happy about the NACs announcement; gives Ford much credit for that decision
3. Bluecruise 1.2 is fantastic; Alyssa prefers BC 1.2 over Tesla. He can't figure out what the difference is between 1.2 and 1.3
4. Door handles are great; he loves the dial on the screen
5. The reason why the car has a great design, great interior, great range is because Ford put in a lot of effort - the forethought, putting the Mustang name on it (he devolves slightly into hating on the start button here as well)

We have a GTPE and love it but also have a new model Y AWD long range at 320 miles on 20 rims.
Nothing can beat tesla. Its charges 150 to 160 miles in 15 minutes and superchargers are everywhere. And they work 99.5% of the time. One commenter said I was giving a commercial on tesla on my positive feedback but its TRUE. Its a awesome ev and only con no android. So with your complaints listed test drive a a tesla and see what you think.

 

[hybrid2bev]

I just want to see the kW speed on the screen while charging.

 

[TheSteelRider]

We have a GTPE and love it but also have a new model Y AWD long range at 320 miles on 20 rims.
Nothing can beat tesla. Its charges 150 to 160 miles in 15 minutes and superchargers are everywhere. And they work 99.5% of the time. One commenter said I was giving a commercial on tesla on my positive feedback but its TRUE. Its a awesome ev and only con no android. So with your complaints listed test drive a a tesla and see what you think.

I did. And, I then put a deposit on the Mach E and have never looked back. To each his own I guess. But I digress, this thread is about Kyle Connor not me. And, he already has a Tesla so you are preaching to the choir ?

 

[stealthytolkien]

We have a GTPE and love it but also have a new model Y AWD long range at 320 miles on 20 rims.
Nothing can beat tesla. Its charges 150 to 160 miles in 15 minutes and superchargers are everywhere. And they work 99.5% of the time. One commenter said I was giving a commercial on tesla on my positive feedback but its TRUE. Its a awesome ev and only con no android. So with your complaints listed test drive a a tesla and see what you think.

Loved my Tesla. But when they install a system that sees rear cross traffic alert and a proper blind spot monitoring and alert system, I shall return to Tesla. What they have today in lieu of those two features is useless. I don’t care if it’s USS or Vision based implementation, but after owning a Tesla Model 3 for 5 years as an early adopter, I was hoping that the next model I upgrade to has at least those Systems in place.

I personally do not care about Autopilot, Apple CarPlay, or Android Auto. If anything, the phantom braking when using ACC and Autopilot in Tesla scares me and I barely ever used it. I buy cars to drive them not the other way around. In seven years of owning a Prius or Audi, I’ve never once experienced phantom braking. They both have lane keeping systems and while they’re not as advanced as Tesla’s, sometimes calling Tesla’s system advanced makes me feel like I’m lying to myself about it having experienced what I’ve experienced.

Tesla may have good crash safety ratings (aka keeping you alive after you crash) but IMHO it lacks well proven features to prevent crashes. Watch a video or two on YouTube showing how underdeveloped the front collision avoidance is.



And without rear cross traffic and blind spot monitoring features I mentioned above, especially how tight parking spots have become, nobody backs into parking spots anymore, and how much recklessly people drive around the lots and on highways in our blind spots, it is frustrating to not have these features.

I definitely lived without them for five years but after witnessing how useful they are, I decided to give Ford a chance.

And while a few things are lacking in Ford which I only missed the first few days because I experienced them in Tesla, almost none of them were dealbreakers after a week long with the MME except maybe the HVBJB issue that is lurking for all GT models and one pesky software error I got once.

The MME GT is built almost equally well, drives slightly better and looks way better than the Y in my humble and of course subjective opinion.

You’ve got the best of both worlds as you own both. But I agree that you’ve been posting this infomercial on every thread and it’s becoming Reddit-grade trolling at this point

 

[Schox]

~
Its a awesome ev and only con no android. So with your complaints listed test drive a a tesla and see what you think.

There is no universal perfect car.
I've tested "every" Tesla (no Roadster) in most variants and generations.
While they are good EV's, I don't like either the drive or the philosophy behind the user interface (eg driver environment).

I have friends that love them, and also friends that love the Audi e-trons, ev6, Ioniq 5/6

(I have no friends that love any of the new Chinese cars yet)

For me the MME ticks more of the right boxes, even if it's far from perfect.

(And for you over there, the agreement between Ford US and Tesla US for access to the Tesla supercharger network is awesome - we love having that access here - hope to get AutoCharge on Tesla superchargers soon ?)

 

[voxel]

I'll summarize his points here. I'm trying to paraphrase his points as neutral as possible without adding any additional color. Discuss below.

Things that he doesn't like about the Mach E

1. Price. He claims the Model Y is about $10k less and you get more from a model Y
2. In order to precondition the cabin, you have to "remote start" the vehicle. He would rather have a dedicated precondition state
3. When you open the car, it doesn't immediately turn on the screens and climate control
4. There is no "easy way" to set a max charging % for the vehicle, you have to create profiles based on location
5. He states that all early Mach E's, the High voltage junction box will eventually die, and he states that he has personally seen examples of post-fix new parts also failing
6. They have the most conservative current limiting in / out of the battery of all EVs. This shows up in a poor charging curve, and it shows in the "5 second limit" of the GT. He claims this is because Ford cheaped out and doesn't have "thermal sensors everywhere"
7. Another complaint about the charging curve not being "class leading". He says he expects an EV to only be at a station 10 -15 minutes and be charged
8. He doesn't like when the car is running and he leaves it honks twice at him. He would rather the car automatically immediately shut off when he gets out the car
9. He wants mag ride to be an option on the premium trim. He claims there is no traction on the car and it bounces all over.
10. (Alyssa's complaint) There is no dedicated "pet mode". She claims in order to do this, you must leave the car on, leave your keys in it, then from the door panel lock the doors. Then, the app doesn't tell you it is on in this mode. (Kyle adds) 90% of the time on a trip, he gets out of the car goes in a store for 10 minutes, and comes back. Wants the car to stay cool not have to pull out an app, wait for it to connect, remote start it; etc.

Things Mach E does well / he loves

1. (Alyssa) Interior - Looks, seat comfort (besides the suspension)
2. Range is great; he's happy about the NACs announcement; gives Ford much credit for that decision
3. Bluecruise 1.2 is fantastic; Alyssa prefers BC 1.2 over Tesla. He can't figure out what the difference is between 1.2 and 1.3
4. Door handles are great; he loves the dial on the screen
5. The reason why the car has a great design, great interior, great range is because Ford put in a lot of effort - the forethought, putting the Mustang name on it (he devolves slightly into hating on the start button here as well)

All valid but don’t care… all super minor. The Mach-E is not a Rivian nor Tesla. He’s very much into that ecosystem/design and while seamless car entry/exit is the modern way… it’s not a must.

I prefer BlueCruise over Autopilot and Driver+ too.

My gripes with the MME are the same - bouncy suspension and wind/road noise (many other EVs have lower NVH). Once the Ioniq 5 N is available I’m dumping the R1S and Mach-E.

 

[Mach1E]

We have a GTPE and love it but also have a new model Y AWD long range at 320 miles on 20 rims.
Nothing can beat tesla. Its charges 150 to 160 miles in 15 minutes and superchargers are everywhere. And they work 99.5% of the time. One commenter said I was giving a commercial on tesla on my positive feedback but its TRUE. Its a awesome ev and only con no android. So with your complaints listed test drive a a tesla and see what you think.

Lol.

Yup. It was me, and here is your same Tesla commercial. ?

Are you a real person or just a bot?

Anyone here good with the Turing test?

 

[Mach-Lee]

I agree with Kyle, those are all good valid criticisms that I also share.

The whole "preconditioning" situation needs work, almost all of us want a simple button that performs battery and cabin preconditioning without setting a schedule. En-route preconditioning for DC fast charge is also very crude, insufficient, and needs more work as well because it doesn't get the battery warm enough in the winter.

CHARGING IS IMPORTANT - Global charge limit should have been added a year ago, it is still mind boggling why that hasn't been added yet when the Lightning has it. DC fast charge rates are also EXTREMELY slow, some of the slowest in the industry for a big EV (less than 1.0C rate). The car is capable of more, conservative human thinking is what's limiting it, not the actual hardware. The curve could look like an actual curve:

Display - valid points about the battery data being shown when you get in the car, I agree. I've had to turn the car back on just to check the % charge, why can't this be shown at the bottom of the cluster like the mileage is whenever the car is awake? We also badly want a kW display while charging so we know how bad the charger sucks. Battery and motor temps would also be a welcome addition.

Ride - has always been a MAJOR gripe of mine since day one. The bounce is bad in the Mach-E, not sure how that even got out the door with such a bad suspension. We've since learned that the shock absorbers on the Mach-E are not beefy enough, this should have been caught in early testing and corrected. Almost 3 years in, almost no improvements in ride, the 2023s are still bouncy.

HVBJB and thermals - still an ongoing issue, pack was undersigned for the vehicle, especially the GT models. Engineering should have demanded the pack redesigned due to poor thermal performance with expected HP specs. You should not push a pack all the way to 3x continuous amp rating, that's not going to be reliable enough and requires huge performance derating. Pack should have been redesigned to support 500A continuous for GT models.

Double Honk and ICE carryovers - These should be removed since they aren't necessary. I've disabled the double honk on my car on day 1. Another ICE carryover is how remote start won't work and honks with the hood open. And the parking pawl.

But YES I echo the feedback that LOTS OF SMALL IMPROVEMENTS are necessary. There is a lot of good in the Mach-E, but it can be ruined by a lot of small annoyances that add up over time. I think that's why we're seeing an uptick of Mach-E people switch to other brands like Rivian, Kia/Hyundai, and Mercedes when they get sick of the annoyances and Ford's refusal to fix them. I'm still on the fence, I will not buy another Ford EV if they still have all these little problems that weren't discovered in testing, nor if I see they do nothing to address widespread customer complaints in a reasonable timeframe.

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