For EVs to become “No-Brainers” over ICE.

[bp99]

It just seems so wasteful, lugging a 600-mile battery everywhere you go.

One of the improvements of future battery technology is less weight. Solid state batteries vastly improve the weight to capacity issue. Also, having battery tech that does not require a large buffer to reduce capacity degradation also reduces weight by not needing extraneous cells.

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[SpaceEVDriver]

One of the issues is that most research is done by PhD's. In order to get your PhD, you need to be accepted in to a program based upon what your dissertation and research will be.
...

As someone with a PhD in the physical research sciences, I can tell you that this is entirely inaccurate.

Most doctoral students don't have any firm idea what they're going to study until several years into their program. Their job in the first several years is to take classes, play around with various small research projects, and demonstrate that they know how to learn, how to think critically about the topics they're playing with, and to practice doing research. They're not expected to plan a research project for their dissertation until no earlier than the end of year 2 or beginning of year 3. And usually the committee they chose for their research topic will have members who dislike (to put it mildly) each other so the "gatekeeping" is very rarely about the topic.

Most scientist aren't corrupt or dishonest. It's a few of the ones who make it into the news regularly who are the least reliable, but the community is much, much larger than those few people.

Just like most people of any community aren't well-represented by the celebrities of that community.

 

[Jppumper]

EV's are politically polarizing. The grid can't handle it, the lifespan of the battery, what the batteries are made of and where those minerals come from, etc., etc.

 

[Mach1E]

As someone with a PhD in the physical research sciences, I can tell you that this is entirely inaccurate.

Most doctoral students don't have any firm idea what they're going to study until several years into their program. Their job in the first several years is to take classes, play around with various small research projects, and demonstrate that they know how to learn, how to think critically about the topics they're playing with, and to practice doing research. They're not expected to plan a research project for their dissertation until no earlier than the end of year 2 or beginning of year 3. And usually the committee they chose for their research topic will have members who dislike (to put it mildly) each other so the "gatekeeping" is very rarely about the topic.

Most scientist aren't corrupt or dishonest. It's a few of the ones who make it into the news regularly who are the least reliable, but the community is much, much larger than those few people.

Just like most people of any community aren't well-represented by the celebrities of that community.

Definitely depends on the particular topic of research.

For example, in high school (decades ago) I wondered why (for a science project) we couldn’t find research or details on the quality of different gas brands. We had consumer reports for everything from cars to toasters, but no one could tell me who makes the best gasoline.

And decades later?

All we have is some generic study that says all “top tier” brands are better-
https://www.consumerreports.org/car...r-gasoline-worth-the-extra-price-a7682471234/

Super helpful, I’m sure NOT bought and paid for by those brands.

The problem with any science where $$ and politics is involved is that you go in trying to prove a specific hypothesis……. And of course find data supporting this hypothesis.

It’s the same issue with most google searches. Self fulfilling prophecy.

Search (fill in the blank food) cures (fill in the blank) disease and you’ll find supporting data. Despite the fact that no food cures any real disease. Try it, “avocados cure cancer.” “Beans cure Alzheimer’s or arthritis.” It works!

 

[ARK]

EV's are politically polarizing. The grid can't handle it, the lifespan of the battery, what the batteries are made of and where those minerals come from, etc., etc.

I don't think there have been any real grid issues yet. Sure, if everyone today had an EV, the current grid can't handle it, but it is being improved.

 

[ARK]

Definitely depends on the particular topic of research.

For example, in high school (decades ago) I wondered why (for a science project) we couldn’t find research or details on the quality of different gas brands. We had consumer reports for everything from cars to toasters, but no one could tell me who makes the best gasoline.

And decades later?

All we have is some generic study that says all “top tier” brands are better-
https://www.consumerreports.org/car...r-gasoline-worth-the-extra-price-a7682471234/

Super helpful, I’m sure NOT bought and paid for by those brands.

The problem with any science where $$ and politics is involved is that you go in trying to prove a specific hypothesis……. And of course find data supporting this hypothesis.

It’s the same issue with most google searches. Self fulfilling prophecy.

Search (fill in the blank food) cures (fill in the blank) disease and you’ll find supporting data. Despite the fact that no food cures any real disease. Try it, “avocados cure cancer.” “Beans cure Alzheimer’s or arthritis.” It works!

I think the key thing for any topic is for a person to be open minded to change their position based on how the evidence develops, but too many people are prepared to die on too many hills rather than change their stance on something.

 

[agoldman]

Replace #2 with chargers every 50 miles on the interstates and I’d agree. Don’t need more than 300 miles of range if charging is plentiful.

well "plentiful" and I'd add fast. I'd say 10-15 min for a significant boost should be the norm. Ideally at every gas station eventually. At that point range is less but still important. No one like to stop for gas too often either.

 

[Mach1E]

I think the key thing for any topic is for a person to be open minded to change their position based on how the evidence develops, but too many people are prepared to die on too many hills rather than change their stance on something.

Let me know when you meet someone like that!

We can’t even build AI that’s open minded.

 

[Teslaeata]

Golly! Some of these topics take a turn to the darks side, how about this to lighten the mood; I often find myself fondling the steering wheel on my 21 model when it’s in BlueCruise mode to make the car think my hands are on the steering wheel so I can experience and marvel at the car effectively driving on its own.

Can they touch you for steering wheel fondling

 

[Blue highway]

10 minute full charging is not practical. In order to do that the charge rate has to average 6C for that full 10 minutes. A 60kwh battery (Bolt or M3) would have to average 360kw. A vehicle with 100kwh battery would have to average 600kw. Even if the battery tech got that good, the charging infrastructure cannot handle it. Sure, it could work with a 50 mile range EV.

great post

C rate is much more meaningful than kW.

You can charge a lithium battery at 6C... a handful of times... before you will kill it. Current chemistries really don't like being charged much above 1C stretching them to 2 or 3C is done by a few, but it comes at a big life cost....

Ford designed for 1.5C peak.

 

[mkhuffman]

great post

C rate is much more meaningful than kW.

You can charge a lithium battery at 6C... a handful of times... before you will kill it. Current chemistries really don't like being charged much above 1C stretching them to 2 or 3C is done by a few, but it comes at a big life cost....

Ford designed for 1.5C peak.

Doesn't the approach GM takes (dividing the pack in half to charge each in parallel at double the overall rate) get around that issue? Honest question. I am not a battery expert.

 

[Teslaeata]

great post

C rate is much more meaningful than kW.

You can charge a lithium battery at 6C... a handful of times... before you will kill it. Current chemistries really don't like being charged much above 1C stretching them to 2 or 3C is done by a few, but it comes at a big life cost....

Ford designed for 1.5C peak.

Aren’t they talking about this kind of uberfast charging of solid state, not lithium, batteries? Even so, I expect the charger still has to be so powerful, I doubt you’d get one at home and not very many out & about at public charge stations.

 

[Bikespace]

For widespread EV adoption, it has to be a lot easier for folks to charge at home. This means L2 charging infrastructure in apartments, parking garages, along streets, and at work. That is what is keeping folks from considering it for their only car.

The edge case of driving hundreds of miles a day is not applicable to most folks. Many who need to do this occasionally would be better off renting a vehicle for a weekend getaway, for example. I could say the same about owning a truck, but I digress.

I've spoken to many folks about my Mustang, and surprised them with its performance. The #1 limiting factor for many living in apartments who would otherwise consider an EV is their inability to charge at home. Solve that hurdle, hopefully with carrots and not sticks, and EV adoption rates will climb, and won't be limited to us special folks who want a fun daily while still maintaining a small fleet of ICE backups.

 

[luckie]

As someone with a PhD in the physical research sciences, I can tell you that this is entirely inaccurate.

Most doctoral students don't have any firm idea what they're going to study until several years into their program. Their job in the first several years is to take classes, play around with various small research projects, and demonstrate that they know how to learn, how to think critically about the topics they're playing with, and to practice doing research. They're not expected to plan a research project for their dissertation until no earlier than the end of year 2 or beginning of year 3. And usually the committee they chose for their research topic will have members who dislike (to put it mildly) each other so the "gatekeeping" is very rarely about the topic.

Most scientist aren't corrupt or dishonest. It's a few of the ones who make it into the news regularly who are the least reliable, but the community is much, much larger than those few people.

Just like most people of any community aren't well-represented by the celebrities of that community.

My experience as someone with a PhD in the biological sciences mirrors exactly what SpaceEVDriver just shared he experienced in the physical sciences.

Doctoral students have no idea what their research will be about when they join a graduate school, they spend several years taking classes, rotating in different labs, learning how to use different tools and methods, they do not develop a project and have a committee meeting until after all that, around year 3. If they choose to work in a laboratory that studies cancer, they will likely study cancer, but they chose which lab to work in, and how and what they do is what they think up and design with the help of other students, faculty, and collaborative folx.

Have met numerous scientists, and in reference to my earlier post, I've also met numerous engineers too, in a variety of academic and private settings they are the same "peoples", nerdy folx who like thinking creatively, using mathematics and innovative designs to build cool stuff and test out ideas with collaborators. They are fun to work with, smart, creative, and like to laugh, drive EVs, watch NASA and Space X launches, watch SciFi films and frequent EV internet forums.

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

Doesn't the approach GM takes (dividing the pack in half to charge each in parallel at double the overall rate) get around that issue? Honest question. I am not a battery expert.

A 1C charge rate means it takes one hour to go from 0% to 100%.

Assume you have a 200 kWh battery.

Its 1C charge rate is 200 kW. It will take 1 hour of 200 kW power to pull 200 kWh of energy from the DCFC.

If you split that 200 kWh battery into two smaller batteries of 100 kWh each, then each part has a 1C charge rate of 100 kW. Each part will take 1 hour at 100 kW of power to pull 100 kWh of energy.

The DCFC will see the 200 kW power draw because you're essentially charging two batteries.
But it still takes an hour at the 1C charge rate.

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