Tesla suppresses thousands of driving range complaints

[superdave80]

They removed all range adjustments to make their vehicles, and I quote "more like Tesla".

What are 'range adjustments'? And how is Ford able to remove them from the EPA estimates they use?

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[DevSecOps]

And in those places you will get less range than areas that have 65-70 MPH speed limits. If you want to have EPA ratings for 85MPH driving, go complain to the EPA.

Yes... yes it is. Why are you saying this for the hundredth time? And to whom?

You are free to go under the speed limit as long as you aren't impeding the flow of traffic (although the exact law will probably vary from state to state).

I have always said it's the EPA that needs to be changed. Tesla also uses an EPA rating, so why are we having this discussion? Oh yeah, because people can't help but bash on Tesla and Elon.

 

[superdave80]

Therefore EPA range should be based 100% on freeway speeds in my honest opinion.

I would like to see a mixed/in-town driving range, along side a 'Range at 70 MPH highway driving'. Most people do a lot of mixed/in-town driving, so it would be good to show that EVs have better range for in-town driving.

 

[DevSecOps]

What are 'range adjustments'? And how is Ford able to remove them from the EPA estimates they use?

My vehicle, and many others, show 260mi at 100 SOC. No driving data is used to adjust the range to be more accurate. I was told by Ford directly that this was an attempt to be more like Tesla.

 

[superdave80]

Tesla also uses an EPA rating,

Tesla uses a different EPA rating that over-inflates the range. They know this, but don't care.

 

[Pushrods&Capacitors]

A lie is a lie in my books. Doesn't matter which lie is bigger they are equally wrong. I'm not defending Tesla at all, but I don't distinguish between size of lies. I've never seen anything close to 260 mi freeway range in my GTPE, therefore Ford lied, just like they all do.

I get it, but I draw a distinction. Freeway speeds vary greatly, I know. We get about 200-210 hwy miles at 85+ mph in TX heat or “winter” haha. But, we can easily pull down 250 at 75mph and 270+ at 60-65mph, right on the EPA mixed estimate for a 4X. In town only we can manage 300-330, which as you know far exceeds the EPA numbers. The Teslas I’ve driven and my neighbors drive don’t meet any EPA estimate unless driven solely at low speeds and even then they struggle.

I think the Monroney needs a city and hwy EPA range estimate for EVs, imperfect but better than the one, mixed use number. 250 hwy and 300 city or whatever. Then, people who don’t understand EVs will shit themselves because the numbers are inverse from ICE vehicles ?

 

[Flint302]

Elon lied. Nope, I could never see him lying. Next you'll tell me Volkswagen has lied too--would never happen.

 

[superdave80]

I was told by Ford directly that this was an attempt to be more like Tesla.

'Ford' told you this? Like, the CEO? Or just some random Ford employee (who frequently say random, wrong stuff all the time)?

 

[LincolnLuvr]

BMW consistently understates the ranges of their EVs, sometimes by 20% or more.

 

[DevSecOps]

I get it, but I draw a distinction. Freeway speeds vary greatly, I know. We get about 200-210 hwy miles at 85+ mph in TX heat or “winter” haha. But, we can easily pull down 250 at 75mph and 270+ at 60-65mph, right on the EPA mixed estimate for a 4X. In town only we can manage 300-330, which as you know far exceeds the EPA numbers. The Teslas I’ve driven and my neighbors drive don’t meet any EPA estimate unless driven solely at low speeds and even then they struggle.

I think the Monroney needs a city and hwy EPA range estimate for EVs, imperfect but better than the one, mixed use number. 250 hwy and 300 city or whatever. Then, people who don’t understand EVs will shit themselves because the numbers are inverse from ICE vehicles ?

Here's why I respond to these things and create uproar ... about 3 months ago we had a similar discussion and the question was brought up, "Why wouldn't we be honest about range". The answer from some of the same people responding to this thread was because EVs won't sell if we are honest about range. Specifically, "good luck selling SUVs with a range number tested at 85mph in -10 degree weather".

So, here we have Tesla showing larger numbers to "sell" EVs and the same people who lobbied for those large, inaccurate numbers are now bashing on Telsa for doing exactly what they said to do a month ago. It's just comical.

That discussion was here: https://www.macheforum.com/site/threads/epa-estimate-rework-for-evs-proposed.27628/

'Ford' told you this? Like, the CEO? Or just some random Ford employee (who frequently say random, wrong stuff all the time)?

I'm not telling you who, but it's someone who I believe and trust at corporate. Not some random person at a dealership. I'm not the only one with corporate connections that was told the same thing and experiences the same exact issue.

 

[Teslaeata]

Most of those posts are from people driving 85 MPH or in 20 deg weather. Tesla vehicles are failing to live up to their range estimates even in nominal driving conditions/speeds.

I think it’s accepted that the ‘Stang’s GOM is accurate once driving style is learned and driving data has not just been cleared, it’s the WLTP or other country’s test quoted figures which don’t relate to real world which invokes frustration, just like MPG misrepresentations always did but not anywhere near the same extent EV published range now does………..for some inexplicable reason/s.

 

[curtisfinney]

A lie is a lie in my books. Doesn't matter which lie is bigger they are equally wrong. I'm not defending Tesla at all, but I don't distinguish between size of lies. I've never seen anything close to 260 mi freeway range in my GTPE, therefore Ford lied, just like they all do.

I find the range on my 23 Premium Extended AWD to be very accurate and much closer than any other car I’ve owned when comparing the EPA estimates. This is for long trips and short trips.

 

[eleven24]

Tesla uses a different EPA rating that over-inflates the range. They know this, but don't care.

This right here.

I was shocked to learn there are DIFFERENT EPA ratings that manufacturers can use. Talk about ridiculous... and the consumer is none the wiser.

 

[dj_stang]

I have always said it's the EPA that needs to be changed. Tesla also uses an EPA rating, so why are we having this discussion? Oh yeah, because people can't help but bash on Tesla and Elon.

This is exactly the point I was trying to make earlier. Tesla is not “cheating” by using the EPA number, and we have examples in this thread of people not buying MachEs at first because the range estimates are so much lower than EPA. Add on to the fact that our EPA estimates themselves are more conservative in the first place.

And keep in mind Tesla has literally the highest customer satisfaction scores in the industry. Clearly people care more about seeing a higher range number than pushing that number to the absolute limit and running out of juice, and I don’t think Ford is doing themselves any favors by understating so much.

 

[thekat03]

This is exactly the point I was trying to make earlier. Tesla is not “cheating” by using the EPA number, and we have examples in this thread of people not buying MachEs at first because the range estimates are so much lower than EPA. Add on to the fact that our EPA estimates themselves are more conservative in the first place.

And keep in mind Tesla has literally the highest customer satisfaction scores in the industry. Clearly people care more about seeing a higher range number than pushing that number to the absolute limit and running out of juice, and I don’t think Ford is doing themselves any favors by understating so much.

So, the EPA needs to not have two different options for determining estimated range, and make all cars follow the same process. And they need to have EPA range numbers based on average speed, instead of generic and more subjective "city" and "highway" categories.

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