Our meeting with Jim Farley to talk about Ford EVs

[mkhuffman]

Note that Jim Farley wasn't talking about making it 150 miles of range. He said "300+, 320, 340 at highway speeds." I think his point was that if they get really efficient with design, they can offer 300+ miles of real range and use a smaller battery to get that. And then if you add fast charging, it becomes almost identical to many gas vehicles. Several times he mentioned getting better efficiency by being creative.

I am soooo glad Farley agrees with me about highway range. There is no freaking way I will ever buy a vehicle that has less than 200 miles of highway range. My MME can beat that in the summer, but is lower than that in the winter, and I don't like it at all.

Similar to Todd, my work commute is 143 miles one way. If I could get 300+ miles of real highway range, I would not need to public charge during the commute. Which would be awesome. I dread public charging because, well, it sucks.

While I agree public charging will improve, and sometimes it is cool to have a conversation with a Lucid or Rivian owner, I am an introvert. And I just want to get where I am going without stopping if at all possible.

But you know what is cool about capitalism? You can buy a Leaf and love the horrible range, and I can buy a Rivian max pack and love the long range. And we are both happy! Amazing.

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[DevSecOps]

Note that Jim Farley wasn't talking about making it 150 miles of range. He said "300+, 320, 340 at highway speeds." I think his point was that if they get really efficient with design, they can offer 300+ miles of real range and use a smaller battery to get that. And then if you add fast charging, it becomes almost identical to many gas vehicles. Several times he mentioned getting better efficiency by being creative.

You specifically said that you thought 300 miles was pushing it (as in too many). 300 miles, in reality, is not 300 miles on a road trip it's more like 240 (down to 20% SOC) and then 180 miles thereafter (20%-80% SOC) in summer months. Take another 30% off of that for winter conditions and take another 10% off for freeway driving.

That is nothing like an ICE vehicle at all. Most ICE vehicles get 400 miles range, refuel in 5 minutes and you can drive them from 100% to 0% since there's a gas station every mile for the most part. They get better range on the freeways where range matters and they don't lose nearly as much in the winter.

As many, many, many people have said on here and elsewhere, the number one question we get asked is "how many miles can you get on that". Farley is right, range matters. The solution is not re-programming how people think, it's coming up with better packs that get more range and charge faster.

 

[The Electric Duo]

I am soooo glad Farley agrees with me about highway range. There is no freaking way I will ever buy a vehicle that has less than 200 miles of highway range. My MME can beat that in the summer, but is lower than that in the winter, and I don't like it at all.

Similar to Todd, my work commute is 143 miles one way. If I could get 300+ miles of real highway range, I would not need to public charge during the commute. Which would be awesome. I dread public charging because, well, it sucks.

While I agree public charging will improve, and sometimes it is cool to have a conversation with a Lucid or Rivian owner, I am an introvert. And I just want to get where I am going without stopping if at all possible.

But you know what is cool about capitalism? You can buy a Leaf and love the horrible range, and I can buy a Rivian max pack and love the long range. And we are both happy! Amazing.

We reviewed two different EVs with low range - Lexus RZ 450e at 198 miles and the EV6 GT at 206 miles. They both really triggered some range anxiety. I can't imagine that for my primary car.

(We're currently using a used Leaf with only 50 miles of range as our second car. That covers about 90% of our running around town stuff but that is extremely limited.)

 

[Skelton]

Most ICE vehicles get 400 miles range, refuel in 5 minutes and you can drive them from 100% to 0% since there's a gas station every mile for the most part. They get better range on the freeways where range matters and they don't lose nearly as much in the winter.

Not to diverge too much from the topic at hand, but I've seen DOE reports about the ICE average of 400. I assume they're reporting on available, new models. I wish I could see averages alongside number of vehicles sold. IE. The models with 400-450 miles of range sold 'X', whereas the models with 450-500 miles of range sold 'Y'.

When I've search I end up with other results, so I am hoping someone here might have a link to some stats like that.

I'm not looking to dispute anything. I simply find the numbers interesting, and would be curious to see if there's a massive glut in the 350-400 range for ICE vehicles.

 

[The Electric Duo]

You specifically said that you thought 300 miles was pushing it (as in too many). 300 miles, in reality, is not 300 miles on a road trip it's more like 240 (down to 20% SOC) and then 180 miles thereafter (20%-80% SOC) in summer months. Take another 30% off of that for winter conditions and take another 10% off for freeway driving.

That is nothing like an ICE vehicle at all. Most ICE vehicles get 400 miles range, refuel in 5 minutes and you can drive them from 100% to 0% since there's a gas station every mile for the most part. They get better range on the freeways where range matters and they don't lose nearly as much in the winter.

As many, many, many people have said on here and elsewhere, the number one question we get asked is "how many miles can you get on that". Farley is right, range matters. The solution is not re-programming how people think, it's coming up with better packs that get more range and charge faster.

Yep, but I wasn't talking EPA rated range and neither was Jim. Freeway speeds. Road trips. 300 is pushing it for most people before they need to hit the bathroom. I'm good for about 210 miles (aka 3 hours) and then I want to stop. I can't do that in the Mach-E and usually only do 150 to 180 but that is good enough for now. I knew what I was getting into.

And no matter what, EVs do take some adjustments and will for the foreseeable future. We can just wait until we have a 1/8 tank left and the look for the next exit to charge.

If you are looking for 500 mile EPA range vehicles, it doesn't sound like Ford will be an option for you.

 

[kennethjk]

I am soooo glad Farley agrees with me about highway range. There is no freaking way I will ever buy a vehicle that has less than 200 miles of highway range. My MME can beat that in the summer, but is lower than that in the winter, and I don't like it at all.

Similar to Todd, my work commute is 143 miles one way. If I could get 300+ miles of real highway range, I would not need to public charge during the commute. Which would be awesome. I dread public charging because, well, it sucks.

While I agree public charging will improve, and sometimes it is cool to have a conversation with a Lucid or Rivian owner, I am an introvert. And I just want to get where I am going without stopping if at all possible.

But you know what is cool about capitalism? You can buy a Leaf and love the horrible range, and I can buy a Rivian max pack and love the long range. And we are both happy! Amazing.

I also agree with you guys on range, 300 miles is the minimum. Just as important is fixing the damn HVBJB (I know , here I go again). If they can’t fix it doesn’t matter how far the car can go if it breaks down.

 

[AKgrampy]

Not to diverge too much from the topic at hand, but I've seen DOE reports about the ICE average of 400. I assume they're reporting on available, new models. I wish I could see averages alongside number of vehicles sold. IE. The models with 400-450 miles of range sold 'X', whereas the models with 450-500 miles of range sold 'Y'.

When I've search I end up with other results, so I am hoping someone here might have a link to some stats like that.

I'm not looking to dispute anything. I simply find the numbers interesting, and would be curious to see if there's a massive glut in the 350-400 range for ICE vehicles.

My Expedition on a 24 gallon tank gets over 400 miles. When highway driving it will get around 23 mpg. I would imagine many higher mpg vehicles with 15 gallon tanks would be even greater.

 

[mkhuffman]

We reviewed two different EVs with low range - Lexus RZ 450e at 198 miles and the EV6 GT at 206 miles. They both really triggered some range anxiety. I can't imagine that for my primary car.

(We're currently using a used Leaf with only 50 miles of range as our second car. That covers about 90% of our running around town stuff but that is extremely limited.)

It will probably be a couple years before I replace the MME, and the only BEV I am considering right now as a replacement is the Rivian R1T max pack. And the biggest reason is range.

The Lucid Air has a EPA range of 405 miles, but I really don't want a car. I would consider the Hummer if it were not so massive, inefficient and require so long to "fill the tank". Rivian has really hit the sweet spot with size, range and capability. I just wish the roof would open.

I love "California mode" offered by the Fisker Ocean, but range is not good enough for me to consider it. My next BEV will have at least 400 miles of EPA range. Will Farely do it by the time I am ready to buy again? If so, I will consider a Ford.

 

[SWO]

I love "California mode" offered by the Fisker Ocean, but range is not good enough for me to consider it.

I have to ask...what is "California Mode?" Sounds like a punchline to a joke.

 

[leehinde]

I have to ask...what is "California Mode?" Sounds like a punchline to a joke.

All the windows roll down (including the back window and the pillar window.)

 

[mkhuffman]

I have to ask...what is "California Mode?" Sounds like a punchline to a joke.

All the windows roll down (including the back window and the pillar window.)

And the sunroof opens also. It is about as close as you can get to a convertible, without it actually being a convertible. It sounds awesome.

 

[The Electric Duo]

And the sunroof opens also. It is about as close as you can get to a convertible, without it actually being a convertible. It sounds awesome.

I'm hoping to go do a test drive with them soon. They had some right by us this past weekend but we were out of town. Seeing it at previous auto shows, the Ocean looked really nice. And it was fun to see Henrik so excited when they debuted the Ocean.

 

[Mach-Lee]

"What's your Jim Farley elevator pitch" is a good one ?

I think my biggest ask would be why does it take Ford so long to release software? Simple fixes (like a SYNC UI bug) take 3+ months. It seems that Ford is stifled with bureaucracy in this department, so as users we have to suffer with issues for months and months waiting for a fix, whereas Tesla and Rivian can respond much faster and push a fix for an issue in only a week or two. Same with some of the Chinese EV brands, they move very quickly. Ford really needs to improve the response time for simple issues or they won't survive.

Another one I'd love to ask is who's writing the release notes and if Jim realizes it makes Ford look like a joke...

 

[Kamuelaflyer]

I'm not particularly interested in their plans unless they're about to roll out a midsized BEV pickup.

 

[kodiakng]

And the sunroof opens also. It is about as close as you can get to a convertible, without it actually being a convertible. It sounds awesome.

but the front solar panel covers up the back one so you can only charge one iphone at a time. ?

the solar panel is an expensive gimmick on cars but the fact they have such a huge opening roof panel is pretty sweet. ?

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