First Tesla Superchargers with "Magic Dock" CCS Adapter are online... and charged up a Rivian

[dbsb3233]

I had to drive up to the DC area on Saturday and come back in the same day. My MME cannot do that round trip from my house without charging, so a DCFC was needed. I dreaded it. It is so stressful wondering if you will get a working charger or if you will have to wait when you just want to get home.

So, I arrived at the EA station and there was only one car charging out of four chargers. Great!

I pulled into the far right charger and the screen was blank. Of course. What else should I have expected? I quickly back up, because I don't want to lose the chance to pull into one of the other two chargers. As I am backing up, a BMW is pulling up, eying the charger I was moving to use. Luckily, I was in front of him.

He backed up and parked in a spot to wait for me. I told him about the blank screen charger and he decided to wait. I am not sure why he didn't want to try to other free charger but I guess maybe because it had a CHAdeMO cable and he didn't want to occupy it. Who knows? Well, the charger I selected did work, P&C no problem. But it was stressful.

As I am charging, a R1T pulls up and into the charger with the blank screen. He looks at it, makes a comment about how EA chargers are horrible, and then backs up and tries the CHAdeMO charger. It works. Meanwhile the BMW is still waiting. Then another BMW pulls up to charger with the blank screen, the only one available. I talk to him about how it might work, and he says he is going to try it by activating the charger using the EA app. He actually gets it to charge his car!

Meanwhile the other BMW is still waiting.

When I finish my 17-minute charge, the BMW moves in to take my spot.

Was this a successful charging experience?

Mostly successful, yes. Sounds like 3 of the 4 were working fine, and the 4th was working but with a broken screen that someone was aware enough to try anyway by bypassing the screen. I'd give the station a 3.5 out of 4.

The first BMW screwed himself by not simply using the CHAdeMO one. User error.

The broken screen on one charger was not good, of course, but at least it still charged if someone thought to try it.

It gets more interesting if we add a 5th or 6th car at the same time. Is it EA's fault if more EVs show up at the same time than there are chargers for? Even if the screen on the 4th were working fine, that would be a capacity problem that arguably isn't EA's fault. But people naturally blame lack of capacity on EA too, even though it's just as much a lack of every other charge network operator for not having more (or any) chargers there. EA tends to become the catch-all for DCFC shortcomings because (ironically) they provide most of the road trip CCS DCFC for us.

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[kennethjk]

I had to drive up to the DC area on Saturday and come back in the same day. My MME cannot do that round trip from my house without charging, so a DCFC was needed. I dreaded it. It is so stressful wondering if you will get a working charger or if you will have to wait when you just want to get home.

So, I arrived at the EA station and there was only one car charging out of four chargers. Great!

I pulled into the far right charger and the screen was blank. Of course. What else should I have expected? I quickly back up, because I don't want to lose the chance to pull into one of the other two chargers. As I am backing up, a BMW is pulling up, eying the charger I was moving to use. Luckily, I was in front of him.

He backed up and parked in a spot to wait for me. I told him about the blank screen charger and he decided to wait. I am not sure why he didn't want to try to other free charger but I guess maybe because it had a CHAdeMO cable and he didn't want to occupy it. Who knows? Well, the charger I selected did work, P&C no problem. But it was stressful.

As I am charging, a R1T pulls up and into the charger with the blank screen. He looks at it, makes a comment about how EA chargers are horrible, and then backs up and tries the CHAdeMO charger. It works. Meanwhile the BMW is still waiting. Then another BMW pulls up to charger with the blank screen, the only one available. I talk to him about how it might work, and he says he is going to try it by activating the charger using the EA app. He actually gets it to charge his car!

Meanwhile the other BMW is still waiting.

When I finish my 17-minute charge, the BMW moves in to take my spot.

Was this a successful charging experience?

Still better than a broken HVBJB in the middle of nowhere?

 

[dbsb3233]

I've had one bad CP experience. Communication errors somewhere but I eventually got it to work. It was well below freezing so there may have been ice build up on the plug or port preventing it from seating properly? My only issue with the CPE125s(?) is the cables aren't long enough.

I had one once too. The entire CP network went down for about a half hour. No connectivity to start chargers, anywhere. That was a biggie. But super rare (or at least I hope!), and not really a problem with the individual charger per se.

 

[mkhuffman]

Mostly successful, yes. Sounds like 3 of the 4 were working fine, and the 4th was working but with a broken screen that someone was aware enough to try anyway by bypassing the screen. I'd give the station a 3.5 out of 4.

The first BMW screwed himself by not simply using the CHAdeMO one. User error.

The broken screen on one charger was not good, of course, but at least it still charged if someone thought to try it.

It gets more interesting if we add a 5th or 6th car at the same time. Is it EA's fault if more EVs show up at the same time than there are chargers for? Even if the screen on the 4th were working fine, that would be a capacity problem that arguably isn't EA's fault. But people naturally blame lack of capacity on EA too, even though it's just as much a lack of every other charge network operator for not having more (or any) chargers there. EA tends to become the catch-all for DCFC shortcomings because (ironically) they provide most of the road trip CCS DCFC for us.

I think as early adopters we tend to make excuses when the experience Isn't very good. I feel like we lower the bar when we are evaluating refueling experiences.

I think we should compare our refueling experience to the standard that most people experience when getting gas at a gas station. Right away, we're at a deficit because of how long it takes. Yet we make excuses for that as well. Such as, I would spend 20 minutes going to the bathroom and getting a snack anyway. Personally I have used that line many times, and it is somewhat true. But if the charge takes longer, we still chalk it off as no big deal.

I say my experience was a failure. I should have had no worry or concern about whether or not the pump would work. I should not have had to go to another pump just because that one didn't work. I shouldn't have had to fight for another pump with a BMW who was pulling up to use it. We didn't really fight, but still I was stressed out about how he was pulling up behind me while I was backing up. It is not something I experienced when getting gas, for sure.

I will judge the experience as a success when I can pull into a charging station and not even worry about whether or not it will work or not. I will judge it as a success if as I am getting ready to pull into the parking lot, I'm not worried about whether or not there is an available pump.

I will judge it as a success if I'm not worried about the people who are behind me waiting to use the pump that I am using. That actually added a lot of stress. That BMW was sitting there, and I felt very bad that he was waiting for a charger. So it's stressed me out. That is not pleasant and not something I want to deal with. I just want to refuel and go. I shouldn't have to worry about any of this.

So in my opinion, it was not a successful charging experience even though I got my charge and didn't have to wait. The entire experience was unpleasant and stressful.

 

[dbsb3233]

I think as early adopters we tend to make excuses when the experience Isn't very good. I feel like we lower the bar when we are evaluating refueling experiences.

I think we should compare our refueling experience to the standard that most people experience when getting gas at a gas station. Right away, we're at a deficit because of how long it takes. Yet we make excuses for that as well. Such as, I would spend 20 minutes going to the bathroom and getting a snack anyway. Personally I have used that line many times, and it is somewhat true. But if the charge takes longer, we still chalk it off as no big deal.

I say my experience was a failure. I should have had no worry or concern about whether or not the pump would work. I should not have had to go to another pump just because that one didn't work. I shouldn't have had to fight for another pump with a BMW who was pulling up to use it. We didn't really fight, but still I was stressed out about how he was pulling up behind me while I was backing up. It is not something I experienced when getting gas, for sure.

I will judge the experience as a success when I can pull into a charging station and not even worry about whether or not it will work or not. I will judge it as a success if as I am getting ready to pull into the parking lot, I'm not worried about whether or not there is an available pump.

I will judge it as a success if I'm not worried about the people who are behind me waiting to use the pump that I am using. That actually added a lot of stress. That BMW was sitting there, and I felt very bad that he was waiting for a charger. So it's stressed me out. That is not pleasant and not something I want to deal with. I just want to refuel and go. I shouldn't have to worry about any of this.

So in my opinion, it was not a successful charging experience even though I got my charge and didn't have to wait. The entire experience was unpleasant and stressful.

Well, yes, DCFC is always going to be inherently worse than gas refueling just by it's very nature. It takes 10x longer than a gas refuel, which is way worse right there. It also means bottlenecks are 10x more likely because it takes so long for the people before you to get out of the way when many happen to arrive around the same time. And the cost equation for installing more chargers is terrible vs gas because 90% of charging takes place at home, thus 90% of the revenue potential that gas has simple doesn't exist for DCFC. That means investing in a ton of redundancy doesn't make business sense.

So if the comparison is to the quickness and capacity of gas refueling, you'll always be disappointed. That's never gonna be matched, even on Tesla's better network. The entire model is at an inherent disadvantage. If you want gas standards for quick and plentiful refueling, you'd need to stick with gas.

Of course, what arguably makes the worse DCFC refueling experience worth it is that home L2 charging is so much better than gas. Better 90% of the time + worse 10% of the time is considered a net plus to many.

 

[Space_Pony]

There are also still a few free DCFC chargers around, but I can't reveal where they are at.
EV sales will slow even more if DCFC rates climb too much.

 

[dbsb3233]

There are also still a few free DCFC chargers around, but I can't reveal where they are at.
EV sales will slow even more if DCFC rates climb too much.

Could be, but they really shouldn't. For the vast majority of EV drivers, DCFC is a small share of their overall EV charging (road trips). 90% is at home on cheap residential rates which is way cheaper than gas.

But most of the general public still doesn't understand EV charging dynamics, and just assume the same gas model of driving the car to a retail refueling station every week.

For the % of the public that doesn't live somewhere where they can L1/L2 charge where they sleep, yes, DCFC is a big deal. But I'd argue that EVs for that situation are a bad fit at any DCFC price. I wouldn't even buy an EV if I didn't have cheap, easy L2 charging where I live.

 

[leehinde]

Could be, but they really shouldn't. For the vast majority of EV drivers, DCFC is a small share of their overall EV charging (road trips). 90% is at home on cheap residential rates which is way cheaper than gas.

Exactly that. Instead of worrying about the time lost at a DCFC charger, think about all the time you've saved by charging at home at night,

 

[ChehRob]

Given the current disadvantages of DC reservations should be standard. You pull into an assigned charger (or the line for that one), you charge, generally to 60%(?) or so, if there are others in line, and reservations are confirmed then for the next stop.

Another desirable feature, on busy travel times the network advises you that changing the time of your travel may make for an easier trip. Us retired folks usually could accommodate that.

 

[dbsb3233]

Given the current disadvantages of DC reservations should be standard. You pull into an assigned charger (or the line for that one), you charge, generally to 60%(?) or so, if there are others in line, and reservations are confirmed then for the next stop.

Another desirable feature, on busy travel times the network advises you that changing the time of your travel may make for an easier trip. Us retired folks usually could accommodate that.

Sorry, but that wouldn't work. While I do tend to plan my road trips route/charges a bit like a flight plan, I don't have the times that exact. I don't want an 11:15am reservation for a charger if I end up making better time than I expected and arrive at 10:45. I don't want to wait for half an hour before I can start charging.

And what if I reserve a 30 minute window and find the charger is de-rated and I can only get half a charge to do the next leg? Or I'm 20 minutes late and only have 10 minutes left in my reserved window?

There's lots of variables that can change along the way, even last minute. Headwind... broken chargers... unplanned detours...

 

[ChehRob]

The technology is available. If it is a busy holiday weekend most people can plan their next few hours. If plans change 'text' reservations and cancel. Some of us are accustomed to planning for ferries, sometimes with reservation, train trips, even planes.

 

[dbsb3233]

The technology is available. If it is a busy holiday weekend most people can plan their next few hours. If plans change 'text' reservations and cancel. Some of us are accustomed to planning for ferries, sometimes with reservation, train trips, even planes.

Technology isn't the problem, practicality is. If people have to make a reservation just to charge their car at a travel center, this whole EV thing isn't going to work for the masses.

 

[21st Century Pony]

IMHO the time to DC fast charge can easily be reframed as "time to take a good break from piloting a heavy vehicle at high rate of speed".

Yes it take longer than refilling a gas tank. It also gives time to stretch, to walk around (especially important for our dogs!) and to eat a meal especially at neat indie places we'd never stop at otherwise.

In this reframed light, I'll choose a 62kWh Chargepoint DC station anytime - certainly if it is located in an interesting county seat downtown rather than at a WalMart on the characterless outskirts.

In this vein, I have found that Ohio and Utah jurisdictions have pretty much gotten DC location things better than most others.

 

[dbsb3233]

 

[RickMachE]

Given the current disadvantages of DC reservations should be standard. You pull into an assigned charger (or the line for that one), you charge, generally to 60%(?) or so, if there are others in line, and reservations are confirmed then for the next stop.

Another desirable feature, on busy travel times the network advises you that changing the time of your travel may make for an easier trip. Us retired folks usually could accommodate that.

This is impractical in so many ways. First, you don't charge to 60% you charge to 80%. Second, having driven many thousands of miles on EV trips, I can tell you that you can't successfully schedule your stops on a clock. Impossible to do.

There is ONE charging company that I know of that said they allowed reservations, EVgo, and I think that's been turned off.

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