One scratch totalled a brand new Ioniq 5

[GreaseMonkey]

I wonder what planet was this stats collected on

https://www.statista.com/statistics/883118/global-lithium-ion-battery-pack-costs/#:~:text=Lithium-ion battery pack price,efficient energy storage devices worldwide.

This data is accurate and has been cited in many reputable publications over time. It reflects the battery cost to the manufacturer and excludes auxiliary systems required for the battery to function properly. It has been used to estimate the price parity point between EVs and ICE. Pre-pandemic, it was believed that a $100/ kWh would make electric vehicles cost the same to an OEM as equivalent Ice. That point most likely changed, but I haven’t seen any revised figures. Goldman Sachs estimates that 2025 would be the timeframe at which that price parity is achieved for an at scale player. Also remember that lithium prices plummeted this year some 75% and a large portion of battery cost is related to lithium.

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[Rt1AWD]

This data is accurate and has been cited in many reputable publications over time. It reflects the battery cost to the manufacturer and excludes auxiliary systems required for the battery to function properly. It has been used to estimate the price parity point between EVs and ICE. Pre-pandemic, it was believed that a $100/ kWh would make electric vehicles cost the same to an OEM as equivalent Ice. That point most likely changed, but I haven’t seen any revised figures. Goldman Sachs estimates that 2025 would be the timeframe at which that price parity is achieved for an at scale player. Also remember that lithium prices plummeted this year some 75% and a large portion of battery cost is related to lithium.

But if the cost of battery is just the third of the total battery pack price - it is even worse. It means there is a little correlation between statistical "battery cost" and real EV battery price.

 

[GreaseMonkey]

But if the cost of battery is just the third of the total battery pack price - it is even worse. It means there is a little correlation between statistical "battery cost" and real EV battery price.

Think about it this way: you bust your headlight and go to the dealer to buy a replacement. They ask for $1,200. Is that the cost to Ford? Not even close. Battery replacement to the consumer is equivalent to the $1,200 retail price. The graph you posted is the cost to an “at scale” player. Ford is not at scale yet. Tesla and BYD are.

 

[Rt1AWD]

Think about it this way: you bust your headlight and go to the dealer to buy a replacement. They ask for $1,200. Is that the cost to Ford? Not even close. Battery replacement to the consumer is equivalent to the $1,200 retail price. The graph you posted is the cost to an “at scale” player. Ford is not at scale yet. Tesla and BYD are.

At what exactly point in your opinion Ford will become "at scale" and will stop forcing customers to throw away their cars in perfect condition just because something happened to the battery?

 

[Anders31]

Don’t believe random people on the internet. Even if the Mach E battery is $36k, that speaks nothing any the future of EVs but more so the future of Ford. If it’s true and people find out a Tesla battery pack costs $16k installed and Ford is $36k, Ford will die very quickly.

People will just retrofit a Tesla battery into the Mach-E then....

there is already few business growing around second life batteries and repairs instead of full replacement

Also the Mach-E PACK is bumped, would need to be replaced, but not the whole pack
Only the housing and the eventual battery packs the could have been damaged inside, because the architecture permits it

BUT while the architecture permits it ... it requires lot of knowledge and labor....

Some guys are even able to repair "sealed" Tesla batteries that were fucked due to 3/4 dead cells....

 

[GreaseMonkey]

At what exactly point in your opinion Ford will become "at scale" and will stop forcing customers to throw away their cars in perfect condition just because something happened to the battery?

It’s not black and white, but two factories churning out 500k vehicles a year should get them most of the way there.

 

[dtbaker61]

in the Solar world, the retail cost of a 5 kWhr LFP battery with internal BMS is around $1200.... or about $240 / kWhr. Guessing wholesale at half that means a 100 kWhr EV battery is probably right around $12k, plus a couple for packaging, HVBJB, etc....

$16k is a pretty reasonable guess for manufacture's cost for a new 100 kWhr battery tray.

markup on matls ?
remove/replace labor.... $2k ?

The other option would be 'refurbished' or 'salvaged' as we start to see EVs end up in the scrapyard from regular crashes not affecting the battery trays.

 

[Rt1AWD]

in the Solar world, the retail cost of a 5 kWhr LFP battery with internal BMS is around $1200.... or about $240 / kWhr. Guessing wholesale at half that means a 100 kWhr EV battery is probably right around $12k, plus a couple for packaging, HVBJB, etc....

$16k is a pretty reasonable guess for manufacture's cost for a new 100 kWhr battery tray.

markup on matls ?
remove/replace labor.... $2k ?

The other option would be 'refurbished' or 'salvaged' as we start to see EVs end up in the scrapyard from regular crashes not affecting the battery trays.

16K is reasonable, 56K or even 36K is absolutely not.

 

[Spacey]

Some more information about this incident from The Ioniq Guy



As I see it there seems to be a few factors involved. If anyone has a different opinion please chip in.

1. The dealer made an error in the cost of the battery quote, which led to:

2. The car owner notified his insurance with an incorrect (expensive) quote.

3. The car owner did not gather any more quotes for the damage.

4. The insurance company did not bother to query the quote cost with the dealer and negotiate a cheaper quote nor did they inspect the damage physically.

5. The dealer did not liaise with Hyundai HQ on a resolution.

I know this is a Mach -E forum but this sort of situation could occur with any electric car if not properly handled by all parties

 

[noway]

Isnt this just a bullshit case of Hyundai not selling the battery pack as a whole in their parts catalog, but instead list individual parts and the body shop getting a quote on all the individual parts of the battery pack instead of just a battery tray, since most of the parts would be reused in almost all cases?

 

[WikiMart]

tly odd blanket rules because they, and seemingly their dealers do not know and aren’t trusted to distinguish between just “damage” and proper “damage”??‍

This has always been the case. For instance, makers say a wheel impact should require a new steering rack but nobody ever renewed a steering rack when they struck a kerb with a

I like the debate on this issue. I hate the clickbait YouTube videos designed to line the pockets of social media influencers.

You obviously didn't watch the video, because it is very fair and well-done. Raises important issues.

 

[Rt1AWD]

Another scratch, another 60K battery replacement quote, another totaled brand new Ionic 5

 

[woody]

91kW X 140 = $12,700. (granted this doesn't take into account all the other stuff like the housing, bus bars etc. It's classiclly JUST the cell.)
R&R lets say, reasonable would be $2500. So the dealer adds another 0 $25k?
Seems legit.

it is not a 91kWh battery. It is a 99kWh battery.

 

[azerik]

it is not a 91kWh battery. It is a 99kWh battery.

Ok, add $1120 to my number. I see a Sr Mach-e battery on EBay for $7500 right now.

 

[Rt1AWD]

Ok, add $1120 to my number. I see a Sr Mach-e battery on EBay for $7500 right now.

Interesting. They have one for Ioniq 5 as well for 9k + 2500 shipping. I wonder if the dealer would agree to install it if the customer arranges delivery to the dealership. On the second thought ..... they couldn't even evaluate the present battery and sent the customer to total the car with his insurance company

The whole thing is weird

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