Shayne

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You may believe what you want, but it appears your mind is made up. If that's the case, nothing anyone says or shows you will dissuade you. Good luck.
Just deal with numbers and facts and what came out of the Media release. That is what I believe in things you can actually prove. To name one Kyle 2.1 mi/kw @ 45 oF at 70 mph bang right on what you should expect for a 250 mi car and in accordance with the EPA numbers and 0.7 scalar for that speed and temp.
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Just deal with numbers and facts and what came out of the Media release. That is what I believe in things you can actually prove. To name one Kyle 2.1 mi/kw @ 45 oF at 70 mph bang right on what you should expect for a 250 mi car and in accordance with the EPA numbers and 0.7 scalar for that speed and temp.
One advantage of the late release is that at lot of the media tests are being done in the colder temps so those that have to deal with cold winter temps are not getting a sugar coated summer range and then having to guesstimate the actual impact of the colder temps.

I am sure over the next few weeks you'll start to see some more useful ranges tests and see how close it gets to the estimates, how optimistic these ranges turn out to be will then give a good data point for those people sitting on the fence over choosing standard vs extended range and give real world comparisons against the competition, this data will also no doubt be very useful for GT reservation holders as those models are already starting at a range deficit.
 

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From the few consumption numbers coming in off media test drives (3 vids and/or articles and no one given enough time with the vehicle) it appears the 4x may be a 250 mi vehicle just like the numbers state. Still possible a Tesla fudge factor to state 270 mi on the windows sticker; but time will tell. Numbers do not lie; can window stickers?
I suspect that "on pavement" -- as opposed to "on paper" -- the MME will have the same range as a MY. This isn't so much the window stickers are lying as it is that (1) manufacturers are legally able to use different methodologies in calculating the sticker; and (2) drive trains can be tuned for better efficiency on different cycles. It's why the window sticker on a Tesla Model S can show 140 more miles of range than a window sticker on a Porsche Taycan but end up having the same range when on a real road.

That said, cold weather will significantly reduce the range of a BEV. Every BEV. No way around stickier road surfaces and denser air. if you can't get by with heated seats then a vehicle with a heat pump might be a better fit for you. Point for Tesla. But of course cold weather tests the build quality of a vehicle so maybe not.

If you expect any BEV to allow you to do a lot of long distance driving at high speeds in -20C weather you are going to be disappointed. Rather than worrying about usable battery capacity and charging rates and wondering which BEV will work better, you're better off rethinking whether a BEV fits your needs. For me it's not a big deal. Weather isn't a problem. Terrain can be, as can trips to some remote places where charging isn't available, but I'm used to renting a vehicle when the one I have isn't suitable for what I want to do (this is usually a cargo capacity issue but applies to many things).
 

dbsb3233

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This makes me wonder if driving the GT in a similar conservative way would result in range more similar to the Premium AWD Ext., or is that just not going to be possible?
Don't know per se, but it's likely to be apples-to-oranges comparing to the AWD because the GT has the large motor on the front axle too. Two large motors is bound to consume more power and reduce range, in the same way that the AWD has 10% less range than the RWD.
 

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Just deal with numbers and facts and what came out of the Media release. That is what I believe in things you can actually prove. To name one Kyle 2.1 mi/kw @ 45 oF at 70 mph bang right on what you should expect for a 250 mi car and in accordance with the EPA numbers and 0.7 scalar for that speed and temp.
Cherry picked numbers are not "facts". Anyone with experience with BEVs would know that you are not going to get 2.1 mi/kWh driving at 45 MPH in an MME. It's about as believable as getting 10 mi/kWh, which BTW I could do without breaking a sweat. Cherry picked number can show whatever you want them to: A Prius gets 7 miles/gallon on a cold morning when going to the grocery store, but it would be daft to expect this to be the mi/gallon number anyone would actually get.
 


DBC

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Don't know per se, but it's likely to be apples-to-oranges comparing to the AWD because the GT has the large motor on the front axle too. Two large motors is bound to consume more power and reduce range, in the same way that the AWD has 10% less range than the RWD.
My guess is that the primary difference will be the tires.
 

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Dropping the DCFC to almost 0 at 80% does not help.
I'd be surprised if it stays that way. I agree that cutting the charging power to just 15 kW at 80% seems highly excessive. Almost ridiculous, in fact. Most of the charge curves we've seen for other vehicles that are capable of high-power charging tail off around 50 kW.

Even though most of the time people will surely stop charging by 80%, there are times where conditions could warrant an occasional 90% or even 100% fill while enroute. I expect that to improve in the production cars, either upon delivery, or a bit later via OTA.
 

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Just deal with numbers and facts and what came out of the Media release. That is what I believe in things you can actually prove. To name one Kyle 2.1 mi/kw @ 45 oF at 70 mph bang right on what you should expect for a 250 mi car and in accordance with the EPA numbers and 0.7 scalar for that speed and temp.
Kyle did say in the interview with @Mach E vlog that he didn't really want to comment on that efficiency because of the driving conditions he was in.
 

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Cherry picked numbers are not "facts". Anyone with experience with BEVs would know that you are not going to get 2.1 mi/kWh driving at 45 MPH in an MME. It's about as believable as getting 10 mi/kWh, which BTW I could do without breaking a sweat. Cherry picked number can show whatever you want them to: A Prius gets 7 miles/gallon on a cold morning when going to the grocery store, but it would be daft to expect this to be the mi/gallon number anyone would actually get.
I've gotta assume 2.1 was a typo, and he meant 3.1. If not, I'd be very curious to see where that number was pulled from.
 

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I expect that to improve in the production cars, either upon delivery, or a bit later via OTA.
Most definitely. I haven't paid close enough attention, but AFAIK it is typical for BEV's to come out with a more conservative charge curve and buffer until metrics are available. Thereafter things aer tweaked to improve
 

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Also, The vehicles that are used in all these reviews are pre-production models, so they may still have some final adjustments to make. The odd charging behavior some have talked about makes me hopeful that is not final.

I do worry about what they are going to do with that battery buffer though. Hopefully they plan on unlocking portions of it as they start getting driving data from real world users. But part of me thinks they may wait 2 years and then start opening more of it to make sure they still get that 70% capacity after 3 years.
 

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I've gotta assume 2.1 was a typo, and he meant 3.1. If not, I'd be very curious to see where that number was pulled from.
3.1 miles/kWh would not be unreasonable depending on conditions and how he was driving. The bigger issue is taking a short amount of driving and projecting it over longer drive cycles/periods.

Would be interesting to know if the 88 kWh usable is a hard cap. I live at the top of hill so I'll find out pretty quickly. LOL
 

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One of the best reviews was the Driving.ca review: First Drive: 2021 Ford Mustang Mach-E – Driving.ca | Driving

They did some real world testing:
In that regard, Ford gets it mostly right. The Blue Oval just announced the Mach-E’s finalized ratings and they’re better than initially predicted, the all-wheel-drive version of the base Select model boasting some 340 kilometres before running out of lithium ions while an extended-range rear-wheel-drive version claims a far more substantial 483 kilometres. We spent much of our time behind the wheel of the Mach-E trying to document its real-world range, and in the end, we calculate that the extended-range, all-wheel-drive version would travel about 335 kilometres at Driving’s standard 125 km/h test speed.

Now, if 335 kilometres don’t sound impressive, especially when compared with the silly numbers that Tesla boasts for its sedans and SUVs, don’t fret. We recently tested a Tesla Model S 100D and Porsche’s Taycan 4S on the same highway under almost identical conditions, and the Porsche’s real-world range was 345 kilometres and the Tesla’s but 10 clicks more. I know neither of those numbers matches their rated range numbers — the Tesla’s is especially fantastical — but they were the mileages we saw when we ran their batteries almost to ground. The lesson here: ignore those incredibly optimistic EPA/NRCan range ratings for Tesla because, on the open road, the Mustang Mach-E is playing in the same league as both the Model S and the Taycan.
 

dbsb3233

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One of the best reviews was the Driving.ca review: First Drive: 2021 Ford Mustang Mach-E – Driving.ca | Driving

They did some real world testing:
In that regard, Ford gets it mostly right. The Blue Oval just announced the Mach-E’s finalized ratings and they’re better than initially predicted, the all-wheel-drive version of the base Select model boasting some 340 kilometres before running out of lithium ions while an extended-range rear-wheel-drive version claims a far more substantial 483 kilometres. We spent much of our time behind the wheel of the Mach-E trying to document its real-world range, and in the end, we calculate that the extended-range, all-wheel-drive version would travel about 335 kilometres at Driving’s standard 125 km/h test speed.

Now, if 335 kilometres don’t sound impressive, especially when compared with the silly numbers that Tesla boasts for its sedans and SUVs, don’t fret. We recently tested a Tesla Model S 100D and Porsche’s Taycan 4S on the same highway under almost identical conditions, and the Porsche’s real-world range was 345 kilometres and the Tesla’s but 10 clicks more. I know neither of those numbers matches their rated range numbers — the Tesla’s is especially fantastical — but they were the mileages we saw when we ran their batteries almost to ground. The lesson here: ignore those incredibly optimistic EPA/NRCan range ratings for Tesla because, on the open road, the Mustang Mach-E is playing in the same league as both the Model S and the Taycan.
Interesting. So to summarize, they did a range test at 125 km/h (78 MPH), and got 335 km (208 miles) out of the AWD ER (270 mile EPA). Actually they said "we calculate", so I'm guessing they did something like a sample segment at that speed to get a good miles/kWh reading then extrapolated (which is what I plan to do too).

I like that they used a real high speed. 78 is perfect for my expected road trips, which will usually be at 75 or 80 here out west. 208 on an 88 kWh battery is 2.36 miles/kWh. And a 23% loss from EPA range. Not sure whether to cheer or gasp. Not sure if they did their test in Canada or at one of the events in Detroit or LA. In December, that would make a big difference in temps.

We knew there would be loss at high speed, and 78 MPH is higher than most test. So I suppose 23% loss isn't bad for that. It sounds like that's 0-100%. A realistic 10-80% range makes that 145 miles @ 78 MPH.
 

kdryden99

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Interesting. So to summarize, they did a range test at 125 km/h (78 MPH), and got 335 km (208 miles) out of the AWD ER (270 mile EPA). Actually they said "we calculate", so I'm guessing they did something like a sample segment at that speed to get a good miles/kWh reading then extrapolated (which is what I plan to do too).

I like that they used a real high speed. 78 is perfect for my expected road trips, which will usually be at 75 or 80 here out west. 208 on an 88 kWh battery is 2.36 miles/kWh. And a 23% loss from EPA range. Not sure whether to cheer or gasp. Not sure if they did their test in Canada or at one of the events in Detroit or LA. In December, that would make a big difference in temps.

We knew there would be loss at high speed, and 78 MPH is higher than most test. So I suppose 23% loss isn't bad for that. It sounds like that's 0-100%. A realistic 10-80% range makes that 145 miles @ 78 MPH.
The test was done in Ontario on a fall day. You can see in the video the parked cars have what seem to be Ontario plates. Plus the reviewer is based in Toronto so it makes sense since there was a demo car there.
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