You can't road-trip in an EV...hold my beer

[BamaGene]

Let me give you guys a fun example of the logistical bullsh*t I deal with at least once per month with the Mach E as my only car.

I've got two boys with soccer games in Lee's Summit, Missouri later this month. Games are mid-afternoon, so this is a one-day out-and-back trip.

I live in Wichita. So before I can do this road trip, I have to get out my sea charts, sextant, (or the modern day equivalent: plugshare.com and calculator) and spend about an hour doing some MATH!

• 188mi from my home to the soccer complex. At 2.2mi/kWh (a reasonable estimate given weight, highway speed of 75mph, February temps, and praying to Neptune there is not a strong headwind), that will eat up 85.5kWh of my 89kWh hour battery.
• There is no DCFC within 20mi of the soccer facility. Which means I can't head straight to the fields, or I'm STUCK.
• So, I need to make a stop along the way. Except there are no stops along the 1-35 corridor between Wichita and the KC metro (yes, I know there is one in Matfield Green, but that doesn't help me on the way up to KC, because my battery will still be 80%+ by the time I reach that stop).
• Ok, so that means I've got to stop at either the EVgo at Oak Park Mall (which is always a freaking zoo on the weekends and these chargers are rarely available), or I've got to stop at the EVgo at Berger Convenience (these chargers are usually open, but actually take me nearly 5mi out of the way to the west in the opposite direction of the fields). Those are my only two viable DCFC options.
• Either one I chose, it'll take me about 175mi to get there, or about 80kWh, which means I'll limp in with about 9-10% SOC. I'll then need to spend a good 40-45 minutes charging from 10% to a whopping 90%. Why 90%? Well...
• After charging, I've gotta drive about 20mi to the east to get to the fields. Now I'm back down to 80% SOC. And less if I need to grab a bite to eat for the boys between games.
• And why do I need to be at 80% SOC at the fields? Because after the games, I've gotta drive 143mi to reach that Matfield Green charger, which will take about 75% SOC. Just to top off a bit to make it back home.

Oh, and this assumes the chargers I need are working. As of today, they are.

I'm happy some of you guys have all the time in the world to plan routes and "stretch your legs" along road trips. No normal person wants to travel this way. My lifestyle requires that I friggin get to where I need to be. And DCFC remains a MASSIVE PAIN for the trips I need to take.

That's two charging stops, and maybe a third if I'm unlucky, plus a ton of planning and praying, for a trip I could easily do on one tank of friggin gas.

So…. Get your adapter ready, that Supercharger in Emporia may make that trip a lot easier?

Question, my M3P takes 25 minutes or less (in reasonable weather) to go from 10% to 80% (about 175 miles of realistic range given how I drive),how long does that take for a Mach-E?

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[Fremont Kid]

I agree. Great points that all of us are aware of. ICE infrastructure is still getting built and expanded even today.
The reality is, this is my opinion, EV charging infrastructure is like raising two kids. One by Tesla, which has given it all the resources that it needs to flourish, and the other kid raised by numerous entities with different goals of how to make that kid succeed.
Tesla took care of their own, and now they are ready to take care the rest of us who are willing to switch to their network. By the way, I am ready for that network, also. The rest of the industry is trying to latch to any vehicle manufacturer by signing disclosure agreements, memorandums, wish lists with open dates of some kind of completion, so they can convince their customers to buy their BEVs.
True what you said. Automobile manufacturers made the vehicles, oil companies pump, transport, refine and distribute their products, and users consume the fuels that they need to power their vehicles.
No wonder Tesla had to fight an uphill battle in the beginning. Remember, every automaker laughed and wished for their demise. They even laughed at the prospects of building your own charging network around the world.
Tesla succeeded, the rest are trying to figure it out, still now.
On top of that you get the States involved in utilizing and building charging networks utilizing Infrastructure Bill money, and you will see mediocrity at grandiose levels.
We, BEV users have to prevail now, so the red headed step child, DCFC, can grow and stand next to the ICE infrastructure. Tricky road ahead.

On top of that you get the States involved in utilizing and building charging networks utilizing Infrastructure Bill money, and you will see mediocrity at grandiose levels.

Regarding this point, living in Colorado I see some HION chargers. When I investigated, they appear to be part of a CO sponsored charging system. Anyone know more? I may be near one tomorrow, in Canon City. If so I'll try charging with it.

 

[superdave80]

If you want proof of how much more ridiculously complicated and burdensome it is to take a long road trip with an EV than an ICE... look no further than all the videos proclaiming that it's no big deal.

You don't see ICE drivers posting videos on this topic, because no ICE driver ever even thinks about this stuff.

1. People complain that it's ridiculously complicated and burdensome to road trip in an EV.
2. EV people post a video showing you can road trip all over the place.
3. People complain that the EV people posted a video showing you CAN road trip.
4. EV people just can't win...

 

[Mirak]

So…. Get your adapter ready, that Supercharger in Emporia may make that trip a lot easier?

Question, my M3P takes 25 minutes or less (in reasonable weather) to go from 10% to 80% (about 175 miles of realistic range given how I drive),how long does that take for a Mach-E?

Closer to 40 minutes for us. The Teslas charge at a faster speed, and have a smaller battery to charge (they have roughly equivalent range despite the smaller pack because they get roughly 1mi/kwh better efficiency). DCFC - both charging speed and charger availability - are the biggest advantage of Tesla. I just like the Mach E so much more than the MY.

 

[Mirak]

1. People complain that it's ridiculously complicated and burdensome to road trip in an EV.
2. EV people post a video showing you can road trip all over the place.
3. People complain that the EV people posted a video showing you CAN road trip.
4. EV people just can't win...

 

[superdave80]

I'd say it is just the correct amount of simplification

 

[Mach1E]

1. People complain that it's ridiculously complicated and burdensome to road trip in an EV.
2. EV people post a video showing you can road trip all over the place.
3. People complain that the EV people posted a video showing you CAN road trip.
4. EV people just can't win...

4 is true…..when it comes to painting an accurate picture of road tripping in an EV.

3 is only because the videos sometimes paint a picture a bit too rosy that may create unrealistic expectations.

Realistic expectations for EV road tripping-

Plan ahead
Don’t be in a hurry
Expect detours or plan B for unavailable or broken chargers
Don’t rely on destination chargers to be available

Basically it’s just a list of warnings and reminders why EVs aren’t as good on road trips. Yes, it can be done, but requires the above state of mind.

 

[21st Century Pony]

No need to ask my multiple family members who are doctors that silly question.
...

I may ask them just to see their reaction-

Yes please do... why not? They are your trusted family members and credentialed medicine professionals. Also bring up the National Institutes of Health PubMed sources and check what they think of these NIH studies about taxi drivers dying from the waist down (I didn't invent this phrase BTW), like here:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8485180/

If their relies catch your fancy, pls share. I mean, why not? Good knowledge should propagate, right?

 

[21st Century Pony]

Nah, the issue is that it takes longer to get places when you take an EV. That’s bad. ...or, factually, it's different. But not altogether that different.

You can try to sugar coat it (I note this is your phrase with stories of cat naps, weak bladders and some idea that people will start doing yoga and push ups while charging. I've worked with a fine fella who did do push ups twice a day next to his desk while at work. We're still friends. No harm in such things frankly, except one's own ego. I choose to amble about while fast charging.

Reality is it just plain takes you longer and most people will be eating snacks and playing candy crush while they wait. Well, that is certainly their choice. I've met many at fast charging stations. Learned about their Rivians btw. very cool cars, and their F150 Lightnings, and their Kias and BMWs... and my interesting conversations were always with those who aren't playing Candy Crush. To each their own.

People aren’t going to all of a sudden start some new healthy habit because they have to wait for their car to charge. This is very true. No argument there. Separate issues, because while some people will choose to do nothing much during this forced stop, some other people might indeed be looking for a chance to start a new health habit or to increase an old health habit, and suddenly realize they can do it because while DC charging they just have a 30 - 45 minutes to do just that. Not everyone of course.

I would love to hear which doctor prescribed more stress in your life. That would be a first. ? Plenty of doctors have prescribed activities for me and perhaps for a great majority of us and our children as well, which increase stress (it's a result not a pill), to wit: running, racquetball, walking, blah blah blah. Some would dispute that prescribing activities which among other results increase controllable moderate stress is a 1st for overall health advice.

Mach1E, this is a good discussion. My response comments are in italics above.

 

[Mach1E]

Yes please do... why not? They are your trusted family members and credentialed medicine professionals. Also bring up the National Institutes of Health PubMed sources and check what they think of these NIH studies about taxi drivers dying from the waist down (I didn't invent this phrase BTW), like here:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8485180/

If their relies catch your fancy, pls share. I mean, why not? Good knowledge should propagate, right?

I don’t mind sharing just to hear what they say.

But to be clear, taxi drivers would suffer the same fate in electric cars.

Fun fact- there were hundreds of electric taxis in NYC in the 1920s.

I will tell you another fun anecdote my dr brother told me years ago- never trust the internet for medical advice. You can literally find ANY claim you make up.

It’s a fun google game to play- try googling the following phrase- “(fill in the blank) food cures (fill in the blank) disease”

You will find results for pretty much anything.

“Tomatoes cure arthritis.”
https://www.arthritis.org.nz/2022/12/22/are-tomatoes-bad-for-arthritis/

“Pizza cures cancer”
https://www.volusonclub.net/empower... really reduce the,come from the tomato sauce.

Feel free to play the game yourself! ?

 

[nvabill]

I don’t mind sharing just to hear what they say.

But to be clear, taxi drivers would suffer the same fate in electric cars.

Fun fact- there were hundreds of electric taxis in NYC in the 1920s.

I will tell you another fun anecdote my dr brother told me years ago- never trust the internet for medical advice. You can literally find ANY claim you make up.

It’s a fun google game to play- try googling the following phrase- “(fill in the blank) food cures (fill in the blank) disease”

You will find results for pretty much anything.

“Tomatoes cure arthritis.”
https://www.arthritis.org.nz/2022/12/22/are-tomatoes-bad-for-arthritis/

“Pizza cures cancer”
https://www.volusonclub.net/empowered-womens-health/can-pizza-reduce-cancer-risk-exploring-the-benefits-of-lycopene-for-women/#:~:text=Can pizza really reduce the,come from the tomato sauce.

Feel free to play the game yourself! ?

Sorry, that's just not true, I typed in bacon cures obesity and this is what I got;

"The answer is: probably not. Bacon is high in saturated fat, making it more likely to contribute to weight gain than weight loss. However, bacon has no carbohydrates, which, for some people, is an important criterion for their weight loss diet." ? ? ?

 

[21st Century Pony]

This thread is hilarious.

- 12 MPG Tacos
- Taxi drivers dying because they sit in a car all day (when most of us sit in an office chair all day)
- Stress is good (BTW, what is non-catastrophic stress?)
- A one-off ICEV holiday road trip story about backed up gas stations
- Screwing in the back of an MME at a charging station
- Waiting for an EV to recharge for 40 minutes to recover 80% of its range

Taxi drivers dying slowly = not the college student who drives a taxi for income at night like one of my brothers did for 10 months but the 20+ - 30+ year career taxi drivers. This is and has been well known for decades by those who happen to have such a taxi driver in their family circle, or by specialized med populations.. See here pls: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8485180/

"Most of us sitting in office chairs all day" doesn't compare... we can have a stand-up desk, we move about the office at will, we have overall come and go home times, we attend meeting etc etc. A dedicated taxi driver forced by life circumstances or ingrained habits to stay a taxi driver for most of life has really no choice like office workers do because their every minute in the taxi is either a dollar, or awaiting that dollar...

Good non-catastrophic stress: sports, competition whether at work or through hobbies, talking deeply with our teenagers (yes this is actually good stress because it helps us learn something usually not what we expected about people dearest to us), military basic training, police academy recruit training, challenging ourselves to accomplish something and then succeeding.

Bad catastrophic stress: heart attacks, rage (road or domestic), self-medication with alcohol or other drugs, physical aggression (on either end), victimization, rape...

I hope we can generally agree to the benefits and the negative consequences of stress... hence my differentiation between "catastrophic" and "non-catastrophic" stress.

 

[21st Century Pony]

I don’t mind sharing just to hear what they say.

But to be clear, taxi drivers would suffer the same fate in electric cars.

Fun fact- there were hundreds of electric taxis in NYC in the 1920s.

I will tell you another fun anecdote my dr brother told me years ago- never trust the internet for medical advice. You can literally find ANY claim you make up.

It’s a fun google game to play- try googling the following phrase- “(fill in the blank) food cures (fill in the blank) disease”

You will find results for pretty much anything.

“Tomatoes cure arthritis.”
https://www.arthritis.org.nz/2022/12/22/are-tomatoes-bad-for-arthritis/

“Pizza cures cancer”
https://www.volusonclub.net/empowered-womens-health/can-pizza-reduce-cancer-risk-exploring-the-benefits-of-lycopene-for-women/#:~:text=Can pizza really reduce the,come from the tomato sauce.

Feel free to play the game yourself! ?

The NIH is not the general Internet. And a taxi driver is a taxi driver, whatever they drive other people in.

 

[Mirak]

Can honestly say I did not anticipate the “Driving an EV is better for blood circulation!” argument. But I kinda love it. NIH needs to start prepping the PSAs.

 

[21st Century Pony]

A taxi driver can stop, get out and take a break. Everyone dies of something. Not being racist, but where some taxi drivers come from, they are probably on a longer life path sitting driving a taxi in LA. Just sayin'

- Non sequitur.

But again, you are trying to equate health of an EV driver vs. health of an ICEV driver on a road trip event a few times a year (or even a month) to person who is a professional driver.

- "This" vs. "That" to a "3d thing"... help me out here.

My point about the office chair is, comparative to a ICEV roadtrip, sitting at a desk 10 hours a day 240 days/year with a few breaks per day is far worse than an occasional vs. ICEV roadtrip break scenario.

- then I misunderstood... I read your post as comparing our office chair routines to the sitting-in-car of a taxi driver.

See my italics within your post.

I see you might be a neighbor across the river in the Socialist People's Republic of Maryland... so how about a beer and we can then compare our points in an easy talk without boring our fellow members?

We should be back from an impending New England trip soon and then we'll be able to throw Dixie cups at each other to reinforce our points

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