Farley to Musk: Where are those 90,000 adapters? [Yahoo Interview: Farley on EVs, NACS Adapter, New Detroit HQ @ Michigan Central Station]

[DustyShades]

There’s gonna be a lot of MBA theses written about this.

You think MBAs write theses? Most people in business school don’t even go to class half the time. It’s just all about networking and getting a job, preferably going on some trips when you can

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[zvez]

Yes, at times. Especially Sunday thru Saturday.

especially if he percieves he's been wronged, which is ALWAYS.

 

[Guss-E 2021]

That data is discouraging. The % of folks who own or would strongly consider an EV has been flat while the % who would not buy had grown.

Humans are a fickle bunch, particularly about financial things. One spike in gas prices and sudden those survey results shift. Not to mention the slew of new models hitting the market in the next few years. Each new model has the potential to unfold crossed arms, raise an eyebrow or two. And honestly, there is what you get from the new and the Internet and then there is what happens in the real world, on the ground every day. In the real world, I see more and more non-Tesla BEVs every day.

As for the adapter issue, F Musk. Hopefully now that some of the Supercharger employees have been hired back, things will continue to progress even if a bit more slowly.

 

[dbsb3233]

Humans are a fickle bunch, particularly about financial things. One spike in gas prices and sudden those survey results shift. Not to mention the slew of new models hitting the market in the next few years. Each new model has the potential to unfold crossed arms, raise an eyebrow or two. And honestly, there is what you get from the new and the Internet and then there is what happens in the real world, on the ground every day. In the real world, I see more and more non-Tesla BEVs every day.

Data from the 1st quarter (US) suggests EV demand is ticking back up again. 2021 and 2022, and now 2024, showed steady EV market share growth, but 2023 was a bump in the road. Likely for 2 big reasons: high interest rates, and loss of tax credits for many models (like the Mach-E).

Mach-E demand got crushed for much of last year when it lost the $7500 tax credit. Manufactures eventually had to slash prices and offer big discounts, but that's not sustainable as it just balloons their losses until they can get their costs way down and can qualify for the $7500 again.

 

[timbop]

I guess I was just venting. I took delivery in 12/22 with the hope of fun and excitement of regular updates. The only tangible update I have received in a year and a half is the camera button up top. Improved BC was promised and hasn't happened. 6.14 with at least some UI improvements hasn't happened yet for me and many after how long already?, and the nacs adapter was already delayed and now timing is in question by Farley himself. I don't even need the adapter, it is just the general disappointment of all of this stuff. Sorry to have ruffled feathers.

Venting because you're frustrated is understandable. But as an adult, take responsibility to understand how business works and vent at the right target.

• Tesla OWNS the supercharger network, and can put what ever constraints for access on that network they choose
• In order for Ford vehicles to have access to that network they had to cut a deal with the Tesla "dog" despite the potential for "getting fleas"
• In all likelihood one of the constraints Tesla put on Ford's access to the SCN is that only TESLA manufactured adapters can be distributed by Ford
• The condition of only TESLA adapters is a reasonable one on Elon's part - we have already seen that the Lectron adapters are defective and can be disconnected while hot - a highly dangerous situation. A resulting injury or damage would be publicly attributed to Tesla
• The contract between Ford and Tesla was likely written by Tesla and while Ford negotiated all they could Tesla had all the leverage, and it most certainly gave Tesla wiggle room on delivery but locked Ford into having to resell only Tesla adapters

If you're going to vent like an adolescent who just "wants" without understanding then expect to be treated like an adolescent

 

[DJ40andOver]

Well I jumped on that A2Z deal & bought both adapters. My wife’s order still says June but I don’t believe it.

gm nacs adapter delayed

 

[dbsb3233]

Venting because you're frustrated is understandable. But as an adult, take responsibility to understand how business works and vent at the right target.

• Tesla OWNS the supercharger network, and can put what ever constraints for access on that network they choose
• In order for Ford vehicles to have access to that network they had to cut a deal with the Tesla "dog" despite the potential for getting fleas
• In all likelihood one of the constraints Tesla put on Ford's access to the SCN is that only TESLA manufactured adapters can be used
• The condition of only TESLA adapters is a reasonable one on Elon's part - we have already seen that the Lectron adapters are defective and can be disconnected while hot - a highly dangerous situation
• The contract between Ford and Tesla was likely written by Tesla and while Ford negotiated all they could Tesla had all the leverage, and it most certainly gave Tesla wiggle room on delivery but locked Ford into having to resell only Tesla adapters

If you're going to vent like an adolescent who just "wants" without being rational then expect to be treated like an adolescent

I'd amend that slightly to say a condition may have been that Tesla be Ford's supplier of adapters, not that only those can be used. At least so far, others like A2Z can be used (although perhaps unofficially, with some unknowns about liability should something go wrong).

I would sure hope Tesla doesn't flip a switch at some point causing all these A2Zs to stop working (if it's even possible to detect the difference).

 

[timbop]

You think the layoffs were the same people that man the machine that spits out adapters?

That's manufacturering folks, isn't it?

While no one has stated this for sure, expert commentators have been fairly certain that Tesla engineered the adapters and someone else has been contracted to produce them.

It is entirely possible that the folks who receive those adapters and ship them to Ford are in the Charging Team and were sacked.

If the educated guesses on the various EV news outlets are correct, the adapters are made at the Buffalo NY plant. If that's the case, there were a few rounds of layoffs there as well — including the people that run the machines.

There are a bunch of "ifs" in that though.

Exactly - there's a lot we don't know. However, I got the impression the massive SC group layoffs were more about emotions/blame than anything. He may have realized that he gave away a major competitive advantage by opening up the network. So even if the adapters are outsourced he may slow the production down to a trickle in an attempt to put the genie back in the bottle.

We need to remember why Tesla opened their chargers to others. Elon was always against it but the US Gov. pushed them. and at the time Elon did not have control. Firing the team slows it down for further review. He has shown to be a bit vindictive at times like the Twitter fiasco. Time will tell.

It wasn't the government that pushed him but his desire to get at the government's money - there's a difference. Otherwise, I agree with you

 

[timbop]

Whatever. Do you get off by going on forums and instructing people on what is right and wrong? Jag posts like this drive people away. Clearly this is not a safe place to vent if it is not worded perfectly for geniuses like you.

We paid a premium for these vehicles, Ford says stuff is coming and doesn't deliver. People come here to vent and discuss, then get lectured. Thanks for the lecture, really valuable.

You're on timeout from the internet until you think about what you've done!

goodbye

 

[Sikkun]

Eventually we will just have regulation that forces all networks to be open to any vehicle and a standard port.

 

[4sallypat]

I'd amend that slightly to say a condition may have been that Tesla be Ford's supplier of adapters, not that only those can be used. At least so far, others like A2Z can be used (although perhaps unofficially, with some unknowns about liability should something go wrong).

I would sure hope Tesla doesn't flip a switch at some point causing all these A2Zs to stop working (if it's even possible to detect the difference).

How would a passive adapter we be able to communicate to either Ford or Tesla that one is using a non Ford adapter ?

 

[dbsb3233]

How would a passive adapter we be able to communicate to either Ford or Tesla that one is using a non Ford adapter ?

Not sure it's even possible, as I noted. It does detect whether it's locked, although that might just be some physical connection inside the adapter that completes a circuit. I would guess the charger can't tell otherwise, but who knows.

I'm not so sure liability really matters either. That would assume that Tesla/Ford would accept liability and pay if something goes wrong while using an official adapter, but I have doubts about that.

 

[McSquashy]

Data from the 1st quarter (US) suggests EV demand is ticking back up again. 2021 and 2022, and now 2024, showed steady EV market share growth, but 2023 was a bump in the road. Likely for 2 big reasons: high interest rates, and loss of tax credits for many models (like the Mach-E).

Mach-E demand got crushed for much of last year when it lost the $7500 tax credit. Manufactures eventually had to slash prices and offer big discounts, but that's not sustainable as it just balloons their losses until they can get their costs way down and can qualify for the $7500 again.

Wait, Hold up...

Not to derail this discussion, but did you say that the Mach-E no longer qualifies for the $7500 federal tax credit?!? Since when?

 

[Sikkun]

Wait, Hold up...

Not to derail this discussion, but did you say that the Mach-E no longer qualifies for the $7500 federal tax credit?!? Since when?

2024

 

[Kamuelaflyer]

Wait, Hold up...

Not to derail this discussion, but did you say that the Mach-E no longer qualifies for the $7500 federal tax credit?!? Since when?

Battery origin issues.

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1141904_which-2024-evs-qualify-for-the-7-500-ev-tax-credit

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