Model Y with STD range and 7 seaters is finally out

[GoGoGadgetMachE]

right now at this exact point in time, I one of the concerns with this map type of thing is that the EA network seems to be unreliable. (I say "seems" because I admit I just don't have a good feel for typical experience vs. "reported on the Internet" experience - how many people have experiences that are just fine and never say so? I have no idea!)

from my personal viewpoint, I don't care what the Tesla network looks like or if it's reliable or truly fast, because in the context of a Mach-E on its own, it doesn't matter.

In the context of Mach-E vs. Model Y, which is this thread's reason to exist essentially, it does potentially matter. I've said elsewhere on here that even though the Supercharger network seems to be not all it's cracked up to be from a reliability and availability viewpoint, it still exists in some places like WY and SD. Places that I, personally, doubt I will literally ever care about, but I'm not the whole world. From that point of view, it is objectively a potential positive point in the Tesla column.

also one other thing is that this map is EA only (right?), which is the big name but isn't the only name. there's other valid map views as well that change some of this. CCS/J-1772 PlugShare map:

Filtered to 70 kW minimum:

but again, how many of those are working right now?

the whole thing, even for Tesla owners (because of the many online points about slow charging, broken charging, etc.), is still kind of a mess. Less of a mess for Tesla arguably as I type this, but for someone that is buying a BEV right now, it's a mess and will be until charging density comes anywhere near gas stations. There's so many gas stations that I can't seem to get Google Maps to actually do a reasonable map of them at any kind of zoomed out level that would be comparative; it seems to hit a number and just kind of give up and say "good enough."

Speedway alone has over 2800 stations in the US and that's just the leading retailer. so EA charging station density has some work to do. Even for Tesla.

 

[Accord07]

With a minivan as my daily driver, I always laugh when someone claims 3rd row seats in a compact "SUV" as some kind of selling point.

 

[jksu]

the SR RWD model Y definitely adds some competition for the mach-e in that lower price range. i ordered a SR RWD premium mach-e, so i'm with tommy's school of thought, why buy range you don't need or use and so the model Y's high price never made sense for me.

but like tommy said, buying a car is at least partially an emotional decision. even ICE cars, just because one car gets a few MPG more than another is not usually the deciding factor.

i still prefer the mach-e's looks, interior design/features/front display, quiet cabin, keypad entry, build quality, composed ride quality, etc, etc.. i like smiling as i approach and see my car (the mach-e looks sweet!), not wince ("there's my fat model 3 waiting for me"). do i wish the mach-e already had camp mode, sentry mode, dog mode, etc.? yes. some video games for the kids? sure (but they have their ipads/phones). better range/efficiency? sure, but it's got enough for me.

lastly, this is just me and personal, but the tesla badge actually turns me off. the fan boys (including some of my own friends) are nuts and will defend defects like they're features. why?! i think part of it was tesla's brilliant marketing stroke initially to give free charges or whatever for getting referrals. not saying it was a ponzi scheme, but it helped create evangelical tesla owners. and for some, especially in china apparently, it's a status symbol thing which is another turn off for me.

but if all you do is road trip then maybe the supercharger network is your factor. good for you to have so much time to road trip all the time. i'll be home charging 99.9% of the time and so am picking the car i would enjoy more 99.9% of the time.

 

[BlueMach]

The availability of fast charging is still a bit dependent on where you are talking about. California is pretty well setup and EA is focusing a lot of attention there. Living in Colorado, it looks adequate for trips west, south, and east. But there is nothing really in Wyoming, the Dakotas, etc. Not really a problem for me, but could be a consideration for others.

But things are also changing rapidly. I think the CCS networks are going to quickly become an advantage and outnumber Tesla within a year or two -- especially if President Biden can follow through on his initiative for EV charging.

Oh it will be fixed, no doubt. CCS will outnumber Superchargers and rival their geographic footprint - it just isn't the case *today*, and people make purchase decisions *today* that's the only reason I mention it.

 

[trutolife27]

I think we need to realize just how much charging is done in other location than our homes. I live in a development that has charging outlets installed in our garages. Of all of the current Tesla and other EV owners I know vey few, (if any), rely on an external charging station. The majority of people I know are using their EV’s as commuter cars and grocery getters. I suspect that this will be the case going forward.

your point I agree with. But in California where there are a lot of rentals and people without home charging, they rely on the dc network very heavily. 45% of North American tesla sales are in California. You also have a lot of people sharing living quarters there to help out on rent costs. Your statement is 100% right for just about everywhere else but Cali has a problem. On some weekends people are waiting an average of 1 to 2 hours just to charge.

 

[SolarAB]

Electrek: Tesla launches Model Y with Standard Range RWD and 7-seat third-row option.
https://electrek.co/2021/01/07/tesla-model-y-standard-range-rwd-third-row-option/

Gotta say it's definitely compelling with the lower price and 7 seat option finally out ... Especially with the Texas EV rebate no longer applicable for Mach E since we missed the deadline.

Will it qualify for the $5000 federal EV grant in Canada? The price is sooooo close!

 

[Orangefirefish]

That is just 4k difference between the premium sr and MY sr.

The tesla have slightly better range and 0.5 sec faster acceleration and more space, but its also might spontaneously shatter its windows.

I feel like this model will take a lot of business from MME.

Ford might need to lower price even more to differentiate.

Also the MY lease with 4.5k down is only $420 a month, or roughly half of MME lease that is closer to 700-800

I think the fairer comparison would be between the MME Select. The Premium is a higher trim tier than the Y, no up charge on white seating (1k option for Y), only a small up charge for certain colors (1-2k for Y), etc.
Even then, quality control aside, doing the math I don’t find the SR Y very compelling. After tax credit even the Premium will be a better price point, plus X-plan, Ford incentives will bring that down even more. The Select looks like a downright steal next to the price of the SR Y. Unless your intention is to only drive the car for three years and then return it, comparing the lease on the Y to the MME isn’t really apples to apples.

 

[GoGoGadgetMachE]

With a minivan as my daily driver, I always laugh when someone claims 3rd row seats in a compact "SUV" as some kind of selling point.

part of the initial appeal of anything called an SUV was to have a minivan without having a minivan. the whole "soccer mom" stink. this is just more of that somewhat.

which is and was silly but here we are.

 

[Orangefirefish]

You need to be a little careful here with this analysis, because the customers Tesla is targeting here with the price drop are the price sensitive folks, who might not actually qualify for the full $7500 credit, and they might not be willing to pay for the color upgrades.
I'm not arguing your arithmetic is wrong, but I am arguing that it might not be as relevant.

Not making any broad generalizations about those that don’t qualify for the tax credit (retirees, for one) but I’m guessing that the slice of the market that is considering a $40K+ vehicle and also doesn’t qualify for any portion of the tax credit is a small one. Likely not enough to introduce a model with lower profit margins and potentially cannibalizing AWD sales.
Tesla is feeling the heat from the MME Select.
Prior to the RWD Y announcement the MME occupied a very unique market position - high end base model EV priced at low 40K.

 

[DBC]

but again, how many of those are working right now?
...
Speedway alone has over 2800 stations in the US and that's just the leading retailer. so EA charging station density has some work to do. Even for Tesla.

I believe EA stations are reasonably reliable. This is based on the station reviews. FWIW they have gotten a lot more reliable in the last 6-9 months.

EA isn't the only charging network but it has more 300 KW chargers than anyone else, including Tesla. Right now this isn't a big deal but in the next couple of years, as we see cars with 800V charging become more available, it will be. Other providers like EvGo have a lot of 50 KW charging stations, but EA is leading in higher power charging.

The other facto which is a big deal is that Biden has set a goal of adding 550K electric vehicle charging stations. He's dead serious on this. With the Senate in Democrat hands he will likely get it or something reasonably close to it.

 

[Ponypinoy]

That is just 4k difference between the premium sr and MY sr.

The tesla have slightly better range and 0.5 sec faster acceleration and more space, but its also might spontaneously shatter its windows.

I feel like this model will take a lot of business from MME.

Ford might need to lower price even more to differentiate.

Also the MY lease with 4.5k down is only $420 a month, or roughly half of MME lease that is closer to 700-800

Here’s a qoute from my dealership. I asked for a lease quote with incentives. Anyone getting a better deal? I am considering the MY

 

[GoGoGadgetMachE]

Here’s a qoute from my dealership. I asked for a lease quote with incentives. Anyone getting a better deal? I am considering the MY

before using this as a reason to choose the Tesla, I'd suggest getting a Ford Options quote as well.

There's like a BILLION threads on here about Ford Options and I really don't want to repeat everything but very short version is that it's a traditional loan with a balloon payment at the end. Your dealer may not "know" about it since it was apparently only around for a time and rarely used until they brought it back for the Mach-E. Number crunching on it suggests you might get a lower monthly cost and you get the tax credit, not the lessor.

 

[DBC]

Also the MY lease with 4.5k down is only $420 a month, or roughly half of MME lease that is closer to 700-800

I think not. No idea where you got that $420 number from. Moreover, if you account for the tax credit, which you have to do, then the prices aren't very different (just add the tax credit to the down). You may have to pay more sales tax with the MME, but the Model Y lease is an undesirable closed end lease. At best a wash.

I don't care what vehicle you get or even if you get one, but hopefully it will be somewhat informed.

 

[Orangefirefish]

Here’s a qoute from my dealership. I asked for a lease quote with incentives. Anyone getting a better deal? I am considering the MY

The Options plan compared to a Tesla lease is a different animal. Y lease is a closed end lease with no purchase option, which means you’re completely betting that the depreciation being more expensive than your lease payments. With a options or traditional lease you have a choice- if the depreciation ends up being less then just buy the vehicle and even if you don’t want it just sell it. If it ends up being more, then just walk away. If you love the car, you can still keep it. Options versus traditional lease is just a way to structure it so that you can take all the tax credit.
Also how many years is your options term for? If that is three years, you’re better off with the MME even if you turn the car in to make it apples to apples, assuming you can qualify for the tax credit, plus you are getting an arguably better. Also with the MY you are seeing the cash flow difference over 3 years, whereas the tax credit would at worst be something you benefit from within a year, sooner if you reduce withholding.

 

[Ponypinoy]

before using this as a reason to choose the Tesla, I'd suggest getting a Ford Options quote as well.

There's like a BILLION threads on here about Ford Options and I really don't want to repeat everything but very short version is that it's a traditional loan with a balloon payment at the end. Your dealer may not "know" about it since it was apparently only around for a time and rarely used until they brought it back for the Mach-E. Number crunching on it suggests you might get a lower monthly cost and you get the tax credit, not the lessor.

Thanks. I wish Ford would allow me to change dealerships and get to better informed dealers. Since this is going to be my first BEV, I will continue reading reviews. Hopefully from actual customers.

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