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Model Y with STD range and 7 seaters is finally out

DBC

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There's like a BILLION threads on here about Ford Options and I really don't want to repeat everything but very short version is that it's a traditional loan with a balloon payment at the end. Your dealer may not "know" about it since it was apparently only around for a time and rarely used until they brought it back for the Mach-E.
This type of financing is a lease dressed up as an installment loan in order to transfer title to the lessee, thus avoiding having the lessor be held vicariously liable for accidents caused by the lessee.

Agree Ford dealers are unlikely to know anything about it. These products went away when states like Texas got rid of their vicarious liability for leases. Also agree that if you can take advantage of the tax credit it is definitely a better deal than the RCL, though to be honest I only know the rough outlines of the lease, the negatives being the residual is too high -- making a buy out undesirable -- and the APR is too high.

FWIW if you live in an area where Ford Options comes with an incentive, even if you intend to pay cash you're better off with Ford Options. (I'm assuming you won't be financing because it's unlikely you can beat .9% from Ford). Without any prepayment penalty you can take the incentive and pay off the loan a week later. Here in CA that would save you $2500.
 
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DBC

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Thanks. I wish Ford would allow me to change dealerships and get to better informed dealers. Since this is going to be my first BEV, I will continue reading reviews. Hopefully from actual customers.
My salesperson, who is competent and responsive, had no idea whatsoever about Ford Options. He also doesn't have any details on RCL.

Here is the short version: With a lease you pay the difference between the purchase price and the residual. With RCL the tax credit, or part of the tax credit, gets added to the residual, which is your buy out price should you decide to keep the vehicle. This reduces the difference between MSRP and the residual, hence reducing the monthly payment, but makes the residual unrealistically high. IOW you effectively lose the option -- practically not legally -- of buying the vehicle at the end.

With Ford Options you get to keep the $7500 tax credit. Think of it as a form of "cash back". So to compare a RCL (or any other lease) to Ford Options add the $7500 to the RCL down. That will make the payments directly comparable, though with Ford Options you will pay sales tax on the residual. That's not a negative if you keep the vehicle but will be a negative if you don't.
 

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My salesperson, who is competent and responsive, had no idea whatsoever about Ford Options. He also doesn't have any details on RCL.

Here is the short version: With a lease you pay the difference between the purchase price and the residual. With RCL the tax credit, or part of the tax credit, gets added to the residual, which is your buy out price should you decide to keep the vehicle. This reduces the difference between MSRP and the residual, hence reducing the monthly payment, but makes the residual unrealistically high. IOW you effectively lose the option -- practically not legally -- of buying the vehicle at the end.

With Ford Options you get to keep the $7500 tax credit. Think of it as a form of "cash back". So to compare a RCL (or any other lease) to Ford Options add the $7500 to the RCL down. That will make the payments directly comparable, though with Ford Options you will pay sales tax on the residual. That's not a negative if you keep the vehicle but will be a negative if you don't.
Good facts your right. Keeping it after is or not plays a big roll
 

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With a minivan as my daily driver, I always laugh when someone claims 3rd row seats in a compact "SUV" as some kind of selling point.
That's so true. This is how the rear facing seats in Model S looked like. Besides the comfort, there is I think a big safety concern.
tesla0037.jpg

I wish NHTSA and IIHS would test these cramped back seats for passenger safety in case of being rear ended. To me, it seems criminal for anyone to put little kids in the very back. Kids who can't say much and have their entire life ahead of them trust the judgment of their parents. I shiver at the thought of rich Model S buyers putting their kids in those seats.

Let's hope that Model Y seats are safer. But still will like to see crash safety scores. I don't think either NHTSA or IIHS is testing these seats before rating the safety score for Model Y. But I'm ready to stand corrected.
 
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Has anyone seen the 7th seat? The elctrek article shows some picture form Dec 2019 where there is ZERO legroom (literally). Are they really going to be usable 7 seats?
Of course they'll be usable.

8628_willy-wonka-and-the-chocolate-factory-original-1024x576-628x376[1].jpg
 
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I checked the EA map as I haven't followed the developments for a while (pandemic). While what you say is true, it highly depends on the routes someone travels. I have lived in California for over 30 years and haven't driven farther than AZ. So it seems to me that the EA network already is adequate to cover 99% of long road trips.

I'm in CA, so I will speak from my view point. The biggest gap I see for any reasonable Californian is from Needles to Flagstaff, if he is say visiting Grand Canyon. That is 210 miles. Assuming summer/mild weather, that's easy in a long range Mach-e. And two stations at Kingman and Williams are coming soon to make the gap even smaller to just 115 miles.
I could even drive all the way to Yellowstone national park if I waned to. A few people I know made such summer road trips. (But some also had an RV, so this may be also an outlier case.)

I am also not sure @TFLtommy 's suggestion to stick to the SR makes sense for road trippers. The bigger battery also gives faster charging speeds on long trips and will end up with a more usable range after a few years. So the resale value could be higher as well. But with people having a second car or who rarely take road trips, SR could be the best fit..

EA_map.JPG
Yeah certainly for the roadtrippers out there I'd consider the ER. I do believe many of the non enthusiast Mach-e buyers will have a backup ICE for those LONG trips!
 

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That's so true. This is how the rear facing seats in Model S looked like. Besides the comfort, there is I think a big safety concern.
tesla0037.jpg

I wish NHTSA and IIHS would test these cramped back seats for passenger safety in case of being rear ended. To me, it seems criminal for anyone to put little kids in the very back. Kids who can't say much and have their entire life ahead of them trust the judgment of their parents. I shiver at the thought of rich Model S buyers putting their kids in those seats.

Let's hope that Model Y seats are safer. But still will like to see crash safety scores. I don't think either NHTSA or IIHS is testing these seats before rating the safety score for Model Y. But I'm ready to stand corrected.
Actually Mercedes-Benz had been using a similar setup in its wagons before Tesla did. I never owned one but just like you had questions about safety in the event of an accident - after all crash tests typically evaluate impacts on the front or on the sides - I also wondered how practical these rear facing seats would be at night, when occupants looked straight into headlights from the vehicles behind. Out of curiosity I Googled it a while back, and just did so again, but couldn't find anything besides an anecdote here or there. The picture below was from one of those Mercedes-Benz forums and at least ten years old, it was allegedly rear ended at a traffic light and the occupants were uninjured.

Rear_ended.jpg
 
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The internet and tesla forums are full of supercharging issues. You haven;t done any research it seems. Cannot charge, broken charger, super slow charging, overcrowded charging. All problems do exist for Tesla superchargers also.
...
So perhaps you should do a bit of research before making such assertions? Tesla supercharging network is not as "super" as claimed.
I see that's a touchy subject for ya 😉. Wasn't meaning that statement to mean all Tesla's chargers being perfect ... obviously that's unrealistic and there'll be occasional issues and I'm well aware that Tesla is far from perfect quality. I also get that CA has different challenges due to the higher amount of Tesla's and EVs already. That being said, their network has generally more reliability at least here in TX, and definitely has more consistent presence. When going better OK and TX the EA network around me is horrible, particularly if looking for any DC fast charging. Mainly I'm just concerned that the limited charging reviews with Mach E so far have been pretty consistently negative and I thought the whole point of the Fordpass charging network was to make it more simple, seamless and consistent experience...

Completely different side note and can't comment on safety, but apparently the model S rear facing kids seats were prone to causing projectile vomiting 🤮 Knew several folks that experienced that first hand ... unfortunately...
 

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Mainly I'm just concerned that the limited charging reviews with Mach E so far have been pretty consistently negative and I thought the whole point of the Fordpass charging network was to make it more simple, seamless and consistent experience...
I'll have to disagree with you there. So far, as far as I know, TFL is the worst experience we've seen. We've seen the plug and charge work seamlessly, and we've seen a few videos where the speed is right on point for that 10-80% in 45 minutes. And I think there's even one video when they figured it would actually take around 40.
 
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I'll have to disagree with you there. So far, as far as I know, TFL is the worst experience we've seen. We've seen the plug and charge work seamlessly, and we've seen a few videos where the speed is right on point for that 10-80% in 45 minutes. And I think there's even one video when they figured it would actually take around 40.
I guess the ones I had seen were the TFL one, Tom Moloughney one, and Kyle's which were all below the 150kW rate. Definitely interested in seeing the ones you mentioned though... Do you remember where those were?
 

Dan G

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I guess the ones I had seen were the TFL one, Tom Moloughney one, and Kyle's which were all below the 150kW rate. Definitely interested in seeing the ones you mentioned though... Do you remember where those were?
I was also referencing those same videos. ;)

The Tom Moloughney one is the one where I believe he said he thought a true 10-80% would be 40 minutes.

There's also a lot of data on this thread here.
 

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Actually Mercedes-Benz had been using a similar setup in its wagons before Tesla did. I never owned one but just like you had questions about safety in the event of an accident - after all crash tests typically evaluate impacts on the front or on the sides - I also wondered how practical these rear facing seats would be at night, when occupants looked straight into headlights from the vehicles behind. Out of curiosity I Googled it a while back, and just did so again, but couldn't find anything besides an anecdote here or there. The picture below was from one of those Mercedes-Benz forums and at least ten years old, it was allegedly rear ended at a traffic light and the occupants were uninjured.

Rear_ended.jpg
Interesting find! This looks much longer than the model Y and (I assume) there is quite a bit of space between the rear door and the passengers' legs. But in the old days, people didn't even wear seat belts and kids could just sit on the floor. So this may have been fine by that standard!

Also curious if it was rear ended with passengers in the rear seats. Otherwise, "no injuries' is not meaningful for determining the safety of the rear seats. The picture does show that the rear door is pushed inward by 8" -12". For Model S and Model Y like setup, I think this kind of impact will injure the rear passengers easily. As Tesla claims to make 'the safest cars', it ought to disclose the crash test rating for the rear seats before selling this. But I've my doubts.
 



 









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