Ford US Sales Grow Double the Industry Pace in 2024, Led by Trucks, Hybrids, EVs (Including Mach-E: 51,745 Sold in 2024)

[ChehRob]

Charl - let me second your comments. Plus, it does not need to be a mechanic, nor does it need to be an older technician. Who it should be is a person, say iPhone adept, who learns how to be an EV adept. First hour should be free, as per your GM experience. Then you pay about $50 an hour for further tutoring. It would be a great first job for someone just out of high school. What they really need to know is what we all have to become - adept as a consumer of all of the pluses and minuses of the particular EV model.

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[zvez]

I bought my Mach e and had a young man probably less than 25 years give me a run down on the car while sitting in the parking lot. I asked about the Blue Cruise, but he had never used it. He was able to figure out how to activate it. It was like a 5-10 minute run down, and basically you can figure it out vibe. However, less than a week later we were at a GMC dealership where my husband bought a GMC Denali EV, and they told us their tech guy was going to spend at least 45 minutes to an hour teaching us about the truck. While the financing guy was doing their thing we were out learning a lot about the truck with a very pleasant young man. Yes we could have figured out the tech on our own, but it was really fun having him help out. He was enthusiastic about the truck, tech, and Super Cruise. He had us out on the freeway using it that day. He gave us helpful tips about many things, so we were not having to YouTube videos on “how to.” Every time I have been to my Ford dealership there are 4-5 technicians crammed in a tiny office not really doing anything. It would be nice to have someone at Ford like the GMC tech guy.

This is very much dealer dependant on how good an experience you have buying one. While my dealer has been great (I bought two mach es from them). In terms of the sales force, they know very little about the car. BUT the part I'm most interested in is the service dept. I've had limited exposure with them, but the experiences have been very positive. The lead EV guy loves mach es and his wife bought her second one a year or so ago. That's far more important to me than the little exposure I have with sales.

 

[charl-E]

This is very much dealer dependant on how good an experience you have buying one. While my dealer has been great (I bought two mach es from them). In terms of the sales force, they know very little about the car. BUT the part I'm most interested in is the service dept. I've had limited exposure with them, but the experiences have been very positive. The lead EV guy loves mach es and his wife bought her second one a year or so ago. That's far more important to me than the little exposure I have with sales.

Happy to hear you are on your 2nd Mach-E. My comments are more about tech and geared toward people that have not recently bought a newer car. So I am NOT talking about the sales experience. I basically bought my car online. I am an early adapter of (non tesla) EVs since 2012 when range was really scary low, and my last new car was a 2019, and it did not have a touch screen/ pad or all the options there are now. My Mach-E experience would have been much better if it would have been like my husband’s. It would have been nice to have someone energetic, and knowledgeable about their brand, tech, options, and EVs assisting with all the options before I left the lot. Plus it was a good use of time instead of making awkward small talk with the sales person while waiting for the finance person.

 

[Mach1E]

0% financing for maches has been around a couple years, Financed my23 at 0%. And my 21 I financed at 1.9%. But the pricing has improved drastically. Basically the GTPE I paid 67k for in 23 is now available for $58k

More like $48k people were paying in 2024.

But yeah, drop the price $15-20k and of course sales will increase!

Also keep in mind sales were basically FLAT from 2022 to 2023.

I’ll get excited when prices stay the same or increase with inflation AND sales numbers increase.

But huge discounts to increase the quantity sold….. doesn’t prove an increase in actual demand.

Not sure why a lot of people get tricked by this in the car market. The same people wouldn’t fall for the same trick in the housing market.

If housing prices DROPPED by 25% and then sales increased, would anyone be calling it a good housing market or cheering?

No? They’d call it a “buyers market,”and the sellers would be sobbing.

Ford is the seller. They should be sobbing. Instead they’re trying to spin the headlines to put lipstick on a pig.

When a company can’t tout “profit,” they drop the price to tout “sales numbers.” I prefer profit.

 

[dbsb3233]

More like $48k people were paying in 2024.

But yeah, drop the price $15-20k and of course sales will increase!

Also keep in mind sales were basically FLAT from 2022 to 2023.

I’ll get excited when prices stay the same or increase with inflation AND sales numbers increase.

But huge discounts to increase the quantity sold….. doesn’t prove an increase in actual demand.

Not sure why a lot of people get tricked by this in the car market. The same people wouldn’t fall for the same trick in the housing market.

If housing prices DROPPED by 25% and then sales increased, would anyone be calling it a good housing market or cheering?

No? They’d call it a “buyers market,”and the sellers would be sobbing.

Ford is the seller. They should be sobbing. Instead they’re trying to spin the headlines to put lipstick on a pig.

When a company can’t tout “profit,” they drop the price to tout “sales numbers.” I prefer profit.

Yep. The thing that should make EV fans excited is when (if) Ford starts showing profits on EVs. Without that, it's just short-term flux to dump inventory and endure losses to satisfy government regulators.

A market only makes lasting change when it's profitable to do so. Only when they get the cost to build them low enough will EV sales really take off. Low production costs are needed to get prices low enough for most buyers to choose EVs over ICE/hybrid and make a profit off each sale. So far Ford's EV production costs are still so high they have neither high market share nor profits.

 

[areacode413]

US Company selling Us made products all while putting food on the table for their employees. I don’t see any downsides to that. Keeping profits at home is a win for your 401k. People can bitch and moan about ford products being inferior to Korean and Japanese autos or being a worse value but those are foreign companies sending profits back home. Support your US based manufacturers even if som products are made in Canada or Mexico to allow for products with slimmer profits margins to be offered.

 

[zvez]

Yep. The thing that should make EV fans excited is when (if) Ford starts showing profits on EVs. Without that, it's just short-term flux to dump inventory and endure losses to satisfy government regulators.

A market only makes lasting change when it's profitable to do so. Only when they get the cost to build them low enough will EV sales really take off. Low production costs are needed to get prices low enough for most buyers to choose EVs over ICE/hybrid and make a profit off each sale. So far Ford's EV production costs are still so high they have neither high market share nor profits.

it took tesla ten years or show to show a profit.

 

[Blue highway]

Yep. The thing that should make EV fans excited is when (if) Ford starts showing profits on EVs. Without that, it's just short-term flux to dump inventory and endure losses to satisfy government regulators.

A market only makes lasting change when it's profitable to do so. Only when they get the cost to build them low enough will EV sales really take off. Low production costs are needed to get prices low enough for most buyers to choose EVs over ICE/hybrid and make a profit off each sale. So far Ford's EV production costs are still so high they have neither high market share nor profits.

... you need fairly high production volumes (>100K annually) to be profitable if you want to overcome all the fixed costs.

I do wish they would add some models to the range.

 

[dbsb3233]

it took tesla ten years or show to show a profit.

True. Although they had to start completely from scratch, while Ford had most of the car-making infrastructure in place (plants, supply lines, designers, engineers, a century of experience, etc).

OTOH, they also have high labor costs and a union that fights against anything that drives costs out.

 

[GreaseMonkey]

But the geniuses created Model e to make sure that Ford’s scale doesn’t get reflected in their financials to its fullest effect. And the sub scale EV business had to carry the full weight of its minuscule volumes in full. Managerial Accounting for dummies.

The only thing that matters is to focus on variable cost. As long as they are able to cover the cost of labor, material, and transportation, they are good. Everything else gets sorted out in the long run.

COGS, not cash is king.

 

[Mach1E]

it took tesla ten years or show to show a profit.

Startup company with tons of investors and products outside of just cars.

Oh…. And they had to get over a 50% market share to show a profit and sell carbon credits and get government subsidies.

No other manufacturer in the BEV market can copy Tesla’s path to profitability. There is literally only room for 1 company to have over a 50% market share.

 

[Mach1E]

US Company selling Us made products all while putting food on the table for their employees. I don’t see any downsides to that. Keeping profits at home is a win for your 401k. People can bitch and moan about ford products being inferior to Korean and Japanese autos or being a worse value but those are foreign companies sending profits back home. Support your US based manufacturers even if som products are made in Canada or Mexico to allow for products with slimmer profits margins to be offered.

You used the word “profit” multiple times.

If there were any profits to speak of, I would agree with almost everything you said.

Without profits, a lot of people will be losing those jobs.

When Ford separated their EV division from the rest of the company in 2022, it allows it to potentially die on the vine and not take the rest of the company down with it.

Ford isn’t afraid to cut “less profitable” models (all their cars except the Mustang coupe), so what do you think will happen if the EV division continues to show losses?

 

[areacode413]

You used the word “profit” multiple times.

If there were any profits to speak of, I would agree with almost everything you said.

Without profits, a lot of people will be losing those jobs.

When Ford separated their EV division from the rest of the company in 2022, it allows it to potentially die on the vine and not take the rest of the company down with it.

Ford isn’t afraid to cut “less profitable” models (all their cars except the Mustang coupe), so what do you think will happen if the EV division continues to show losses?

:%s/profits/bananna/g

 

[rcechinel]

Let's not forget record BEV sales too!
"Customers favored Ford’s electrified vehicles in 2024, driving growth and setting record sales for the year. With 285,291 electrified vehicles sold (HEV, PHEV and electric), sales were up 38% in 2024 over a year ago, exceeding the sales of GM and Stellantis."

Good sign for sure. Let's see on the earnings what the ~10k level discounts did for the q4 margins.

 

[dbsb3233]

Ford isn’t afraid to cut “less profitable” models (all their cars except the Mustang coupe), so what do you think will happen if the EV division continues to show losses?

Legacy makers like Ford can't entirely put the BEV genie back in the bottle. They'll have to have some BEV production just to satisfy government regulators (ICE mandates/bans, CAFE "standards", etc). But as long as profitability is still beyond their grasp, we'll see them do more of what they already did... slow down BEV growth plans and maintain more ICE/hybrid.

It'll be interesting to see how much the EV economics improve when Ford gets their battery plants open. That should help narrow the gap some. Still a big gap to close though.

I read something that said China's patents on LFP IP expired in 2023, opening the door for others to start producing their own LFP cells, which can be 30% cheaper to make. Assuming the expertise to make them is available, that should help some too.

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