23 GTPE, tires slipping in the cold?

[Deezul]

I live in Georgia, so it's usually above freezing temperatures. I bought my 23 GTPE in March last year. The past month as it's gotten colder than usual, for Georgia, I'd hear a thud/clunk when making a sharp turn, usually out of a parking spot. I took the Mach-E to the dealer.
The report I got back was that it's a known issue on Mach-Es in the Northern states in the winter, for GTPEs with the summer tires to slip. Another Mach-E with the problem was dropped off, and the same solution.
It's only sharp/tight turns, and I can only replicate it going slow because I'm not going to make a sharp turn at high speeds.
The service manager read me the bulletin from Ford directly. Is he BSing me, or is this typical? This is the first vehicle I've owned with summer tires. They're in great condition and it makes no sense to buy two tires for the 2-3 months I have an occasional problem. I can just wait until I need new tires and but all-season if that's the case. Or just find better summer tires. Or just live with it during the winter.

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[markboris]

I live in Georgia, so it's usually above freezing temperatures. I bought my 23 GTPE in March last year. The past month as it's gotten colder than usual, for Georgia, I'd hear a thud/clunk when making a sharp turn, usually out of a parking spot. I took the Mach-E to the dealer.
The report I got back was that it's a known issue on Mach-Es in the Northern states in the winter, for GTPEs with the summer tires to slip. Another Mach-E with the problem was dropped off, and the same solution.
It's only sharp/tight turns, and I can only replicate it going slow because I'm not going to make a sharp turn at high speeds.
The service manager read me the bulletin from Ford directly. Is he BSing me, or is this typical? This is the first vehicle I've owned with summer tires. They're in great condition and it makes no sense to buy two tires for the 2-3 months I have an occasional problem. I can just wait until I need new tires and but all-season if that's the case. Or just find better summer tires. Or just live with it during the winter.

Sounds like you are unaware that Pirelli, Michelin, Continental and just about every other manufacturer specifically states you are not to run their summer tires in temps below 45˚. It says this on those manufacturers websites plus Tire Rack, Discount Tire, etc. So yes you either need to replace them with all seasons so you can run them all year or have a second set of winter tires if you want to keep using the summer tires. Also, you will absolutely void the warranty running them in cold weather as they will develop cracks that some here have found out the hard way and had to replace their tires even though the tread was still good.

This is what is in your Ford Mach-E owners manual:

This is what Pirelli says on their website (the tires you have).

UHP Summer Tires

The special tread compounds formulated for Ultra High Performance (UHP) summer tires are
optimized for maximum dry and wet performance in warm temperatures. The compounds in
these tires will have decreased performance, such as lateral and braking traction, at
temperatures below 45° F (7°C) or when driving on snow or ice. In addition, they can lose
flexibility and may develop random surface cracks at very cold temperatures; therefore extra
care should be used in handling tires. All Season or winter tires should be installed for use at
temperatures below 45° F (7°C), UHP summer tires are not recommended for lower
temperature conditions.

 

[RickMachE]

This ^^^

 

[SoriceConsulting]

I sold the Pirellis that came on my 2023 GTPE - replaced them with Michelin Primacy Tour A/S tires.

However, I must say that it is really DUMB that Ford (or any auto maker) would put Summer Tires on a car that is sold in colder climates. I'm in New Jersey and it regularly gets below 45 degrees in the winter.

I know, I know - RTFM, but who really checks the type of tire on their car at purchase time to be sure it fits their weather? I think that should be the responsibility of the car maker.

 

[TheVirtualTim]

They are not BS'ing you.

The GT PE comes with "summer only" tires (there is an option now to order it with All-Season tires). Those tires use a grade of rubber which has better grip in warm weather. The problem is ... when it gets cold that grade of rubber gets stiff and isn't very grippy at all. By this I mean ... even on flat dry pavement the car can loose traction.

Worse ... in freezing temps that rubber can develop cracks and ... this is NOT covered by the tire warranty because the manufacturer tells you NOT to use those tires in cold weather.

You either need to get "winter" tires (I run with Bridgestone Blizzaks in the winter) -or- you CAN get all-season tires and not worry about it ... but all-seasons are not as good as summer-only tires (if you drive it like a performance car ... you wont be able to take turns as fast, etc. but then even summer-only performance tires aren't as grippy after 5000 miles. They're still usable tires ... but they wont perform as well. All Seasons are not as good as Summer performance tires in the summer and not as good as Winter tires in the winter. They are a compromise that allows you to run the same tires all year.

 

[HuntingPudel]

When my 2021 GT-PE was less than half a year old I ended up driving it through a snow storm that lasted from the WA border through Oregon, and down to Willows. I was very afraid that I damaged my tires. I didn’t, but repeated exposure to those cold temperatures will damage them. I now have all-season UHPs on my car (now a 2024) in 275 on 9.5” rims. The increased contact patch more than makes up for the change in tread compound. ??

 

[Teslaeata]

I live in Georgia, so it's usually above freezing temperatures. I bought my 23 GTPE in March last year. The past month as it's gotten colder than usual, for Georgia, I'd hear a thud/clunk when making a sharp turn, usually out of a parking spot. I took the Mach-E to the dealer.
The report I got back was that it's a known issue on Mach-Es in the Northern states in the winter, for GTPEs with the summer tires to slip. Another Mach-E with the problem was dropped off, and the same solution.
It's only sharp/tight turns, and I can only replicate it going slow because I'm not going to make a sharp turn at high speeds.
The service manager read me the bulletin from Ford directly. Is he BSing me, or is this typical? This is the first vehicle I've owned with summer tires. They're in great condition and it makes no sense to buy two tires for the 2-3 months I have an occasional problem. I can just wait until I need new tires and but all-season if that's the case. Or just find better summer tires. Or just live with it during the winter.

I would not worry about this if I were you.

To set your mind at rest, the particular thing you’re experiencing is not peculiar to the MME or your brand of tyres.

Also, it should not be conflated with advice on the use of summer, winter or all weather tyres which is something else altogether.

You may only be experiencing the symptoms of this in certain weather conditions or temperatures but this is a thing from which all cars will suffer to some extent or another but is not always noticeable.

Whether you actually notice and experience what is going on depends on how the tyres perform when they slip whilst the car is moving and its steering is turned through such tight angles at slow speeds.

It’s due to the limitations of steering design and the geometry of steering mechanisms.

Look up Ackermann angle, might help understand this principle.

It’s usually the tyres slipping on lock.

Parallel can be maintained, or sufficiently close to parallel, until steering is turned on lock beyond a certain point (I seem to remember from my early training is around 22degrees) when parallel cannot be maintained due to constraints on steering design and its geometry.

Beyond this point, when one of the steered wheels takes too wide or too narrow a turn than it would if parallel could be maintained on lock, the tyres becoming under tension taking a slightly different path needing to slip which you wouldn’t notice, or if their grip is so good they can’t slip quickly enough or at all when they would jump back to where they would have been had parallel been maintained.

It is this corrective jumping action which you’re experiencing.

Perfectly normal though a bit disconcerting if you don’t understand what’s going on.

So, nothing to worry about?

 

[Teslaeata]

I just set up the turn plates on my car in the garage to demonstrate the differences between steered angles on turns……

 

[Deezul]

Thank you everyone. This happens to be a particularly cold winter for Georgia. I've put 10000 miles on the tires for the first year, and I keep the car garaged. I'm not overly concerned about damage to the tires. I'll look at all-season when the time comes to replace. There is no reason for me to buy winter tires.

 

[jksu]

my 1st winter with this new to me 23 GTPE w/original pirelli tires @17k and having similar "skipping" issues on u-turns in the front passenger tire. was originally worried it was a cv/axle issue.

never had this issue with michelin pilot 4s i had on my 2021 premium so wasn't aware this could happen with summer tires... but makes sense. and probably varies depending on the make/model of tire and the variation steering angles side to side, noted above.

will see if replacing the tires in the coming year solves the issue next winter

 

[DaddyDeuce]

Thank you everyone. This happens to be a particularly cold winter for Georgia. I've put 10000 miles on the tires for the first year, and I keep the car garaged. I'm not overly concerned about damage to the tires. I'll look at all-season when the time comes to replace. There is no reason for me to buy winter tires.

Even in Colorado my winters are mild enough that I've decided against dedicated winter tires. Instead I run summer tires in summer and all-season in winter.

This summer tire distinction isn't Mach-E specific. The GTPE is a high performance car. Many high performance cars are sold with (or optioned with) summer tires. I think it just comes with the territory have having 0-60 times under 4 seconds.

 

[Teslaeata]

my 1st winter with this new to me 23 GTPE w/original pirelli tires @17k and having similar "skipping" issues on u-turns in the front passenger tire. was originally worried it was a cv/axle issue.

never had this issue with michelin pilot 4s i had on my 2021 premium so wasn't aware this could happen with summer tires... but makes sense. and probably varies depending on the make/model of tire and the variation steering angles side to side, noted above.

will see if replacing the tires in the coming year solves the issue next winter

It’s not necessarily an issue or problem to solve but a characteristic of the steering geometry.

The tyres are always slipping under these conditions.

We only notice what’s going on when our tyres do not slip under these steering conditions so need to jump across the floor/road surface to correct the difference between steered angle and the direction the tyres aim.

Good luck with the new tyres all the same if you feel you need to disguise this situation.

You will never prevent it happening but just get slippier tyres with less grip so we don’t notice it ?

???

 

[DoubleDribble]

Any high performance tire on snow is going to feel like the car is on skates. Maybe more accurately its going to drive like one of those cheap round snow sleds kids use to go sledding. You’ll be like Chevy Chase in Christmas Vacation. Even on totally flat ground the car will slide until it hits something. Don’t even risk it.

 

[Mach-E GT PE Jim]

Ok, I am from the Chicago area and did run my summer tires all year. It is garage kept and I only brought it out in the cold a half dozen times.
After the next summer I bought all season tires (I was hard on the pirelli’s). So with about 18k miles they were pretty well worn out. I keep them in the garage to look at, but what a fun first year!

 

[Mach-E GT PE Jim]

Oops and yes, the tires slipt pretty badly!

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