2025 Mach-E Heat Pump Technical Info

[Mach-Lee]

@Mach-Lee Can you confirm this system scavenges waste heat from the motors etc?

They make it really hard to verify that with missing coolant flow documentation, but I'm pretty sure they can. 2024s can use motor heat to warm the battery, I don't think that would change. In the 2024 design the diverter valve can send motor heat to either the radiator or the battery (and the other diverter valve can send it from the battery to the cabin).

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[enhost]

Is this, functionally, about what a Tesla Octavalve does?

Yes, it is, but designed in the USSR.

 

[enhost]

Heat Pumps are great while they are working but when they break it is going to be a very difficult problem for Ford service to resolve. And they will break...

Air conditioners break too. A heat pump in essence is the same air conditioning system but with the addition of a reversing valve. The extra space used in the Frunk is for extra refrigerant loops coming to/from the battery. So no, Ford is not going to have more problems with this system than with the traditional AC/electric resistance heater system. This with the significant benefit of having a system that has a max 300% efficiency vs a 100% efficiency. Using a heat pump is a no brainer.

 

[Doobster6]

Air conditioners break too. A heat pump in essence is the same air conditioning system but with the addition of a reversing valve. The extra space used in the Frunk is for extra refrigerant loops coming to/from the battery. So no, Ford is not going to have more problems with this system than with the traditional AC/electric resistance heater system. This with the significant benefit of having a system that has a max 300% efficiency vs a 100% efficiency. Using a heat pump is a no brainer.

Can you explain the math behind your ‘300% efficiency” claim? Efficiency measurements in any system usually reflect the use of some resource vs the benefit returned and in theory can’t ever reach a full 100%, let alone 300%.

 

[SanCarlosJeff]

Can you explain the math behind your ‘300% efficiency” claim? Efficiency measurements in any system usually reflect the use of some resource vs the benefit returned and in theory can’t ever reach a full 100%, let alone 300%.

It was discussed a bit on another thread. IMO this post pretty succintly sums it up: https://www.macheforum.com/site/threads/the-only-thing-tesla-has-over-mach-e.41293/post-908588

 

[enhost]

Can you explain the math behind your ‘300% efficiency” claim? Efficiency measurements in any system usually reflect the use of some resource vs the benefit returned and in theory can’t ever reach a full 100%, let alone 300%.

A heat pump does not convert one source of energy into another (electricity -> electric resistance -> heat), it simply moves heat from the colder environment (outside) to the hotter environment (the cabin, the battery) using Work (the compressor). An electric resistance uses 1 unit of electrical energy to produce 1 constant unit of heat (1kw of electricity = 3413btu/h of heat) on the other hand 1kw of work in the compressor can move 3 or 4 (high tech heat pumps) heat units from the environment into the cabin. In a heat pump this is called COP(coefficient of performance). A COP of 3 means that it is 300% efficient and so forth. Efficiency in a heat pump decreases when temperatures become frigid, but they never become less efficient than a heat resistance based unit. COP = HEAT out / WORK in

 

[Doobster6]

A heat pump does not convert one source of energy into another (electricity -> electric resistance -> heat), it simply moves heat from the colder environment (outside) to the hotter environment (the cabin, the battery) using Work (the compressor). An electric resistance uses 1 unit of electrical energy to produce 1 constant unit of heat (1kw of electricity = 3413btu/h of heat) on the other hand 1kw of work in the compressor can move 3 or 4 (high tech heat pumps) heat units from the environment into the cabin. In a heat pump this is called COP(coefficient of performance). A COP of 3 means that it is 300% efficient and so forth. Efficiency in a heat pump decreases when temperatures become frigid, but they never become less efficient than a heat resistance based unit. COP = HEAT out / WORK in

Ah……so then the number reflects that it is 3 times more efficient than the alternative of pushing heat around through electricity. THAT makes sense…..I think….

 

[lightningandmache]

Does the '25 motor coolant loop go direct to heater core?

 

[Mach-Lee]

Does the '25 motor coolant loop go direct to heater core?

Not directly, but it can get there.

 

[lightningandmache]

Not directly, but it can get there.

So skips the hp entirely? I think Hyundai uses a water-cooled condenser to run 2 coolant lines (ambient, motor) to evap refrigerant. This gives easy de-icing.

 

[Kamuelaflyer]

I just read, for the second time, @Mach-Lee ‘s excellent post starting this thread. I know a lot of folks worked hard for this and they’re to be commended on their efforts bring this to market and shoehorning it into the Mach-e. But (you knew that was coming), it’s the second time this has reminded me of

 

[Jimrpa]

I just read, for the second time, @Mach-Lee ‘s excellent post starting this thread. Know a lot of folks worked hard for this and they’re to e commended on their efforts bring this to market and shoehorning it into the Mach-e. But (you knew that was coming), it’s the second time this has reminded me of

I have to agree. Until I see real-world, head-to-head cold-weather testing of two very similar vehicles (say a 2024 4X MME vs a 2025 4X MME), one with the new heat pump and one with the older system, that shows a significant range improvement (and did I say COLD weather? So all you people from California, Texas, HI, Florida, PR, the USVI, and Guam can sit this one out ?), color me skeptical of the benefit of surrendering my frunk to a 3 ton Carrier Heat Pump ?

 

[Kamuelaflyer]

I have to agree. Until I see real-world, head-to-head cold-weather testing of two very similar vehicles (say a 2024 4X MME vs a 2025 4X MME), one with the new heat pump and one with the older system, that shows a significant range improvement (and did I say COLD weather? So all you people from California, Texas, HI, Florida, PR, the USVI, and Guam can sit this one out ?), color me skeptical of the benefit of surrendering my frunk to a 3 ton Carrier Heat Pump ?

It’s titling at windmills at this point, but the 2025 Mach-EV is a hard no sale for me. No frunk, no sake. Minuscule drink, no sale.

 

[Mache_Nor]

It’s titling at windmills at this point, but the 2025 Mach-EV is a hard no sale for me. No frunk, no sake. Minuscule drink, no sale.

People are different. For some it’s a higher priority to keep both the people and the battery sufficient warm (which is a issue in northern countries), for others it’s extra space in the front for bits and bobs. Also, it’s a reduction in size of the frunk, not removal.

 

[Kamuelaflyer]

People are different. For some it’s a higher priority to keep both the people and the battery sufficient warm (which is a issue in northern countries), for others it’s extra space in the front for bits and bobs. Also, it’s a reduction in size of the frunk, not removal.

I live in Hawaii. The car lives in Hawaii. Staying warm is not an issue. The size reduction is an issue, it’s little more than a shelf now. At this point I’m not even sure my fishing tackle box sized tool box would comfortably fit.

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