2025 Mach-E Heat Pump Technical Info

[Jimrpa]

They can spend years and likely millions creating an extremely complicated and over-engineered heat pump but they can’t figure a way to keep a usable frunk. Yeah.

Basically, what I’ve been ranting about all along. The sad thing is that we are likely going to have to wait for “out of spec blowhard” to publish one of his epic 4 hour videos, rambling on about the back roads of the Rockies to get any kind of info on the “performance” of the heat pump, and by then, it will be the middle of July! ???

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[Peugfan]

Didn’t Musk offer up his (supposedly) much simpler ‘OCTO-VALVE’ heat pump design to the world for anyone to use? This certainly doesn’t look like Ford made much, if any, use of that design……..
[/QUOTE]
So you think an OCTO-VALVE with 20+(don't remember exact number) operating modes is simpler than a five way (PENTA VALVE) system LOLOLOL.

 

[RWG]

As a former, now retired, refrigeration tech and Product Manager, I agree with many of the comments. Heat pumps are complicated and technical problems will most likely baffle many techs. However I think I understand the Product Management/Engineering motivation.

EV batter Range is a big issue. Here in Minnesota, last week when temps were subzero, when I looked at the trip app. on my 2021 MACH E there were times when as much as 40% of my battery power was allegedly used to heat the cabin and batteries. That severally reduced our battery mileage range but it was no big deal because we only made short trips around town. Heat Pumps are theoretically more efficient than electric heaters so everyone is jumping on the "heat pump technology bandwagon" in an effort to improve EV range. Years ago a household heat pump was not very efficient when the ambients dropped to the 30's and 40's. So when trying to heat your house with a heat pump at those temps. it was not the most cost efficient. i.e you were better off just heating with electricity. But science and engineering has advanced and now heat pumps are much better/efficient at lower ambient temps. However, they are complicated and like any new technology there will be a reliability learning curve. It will probably take a while to workout the issues. All of us, who worked in the refrigeration & AC community knew the the more complicated a system was lead to new reliability and repair challenges. I suspect it will be the same with heat pumps in cars but heat pump technology is not new but it is evolving, fast.


The basic operational theory of a Heat Pump is it can extract the heat from the ambient air and put it in your vehicle more efficiently than running electric heaters which put out 3.41 btus per watt. At higher ambients, heat pumps can be more than 200 times more efficient, or as an example, 1 watt of expended electrical energy to run a heat pump could, theoretically give you over 600 btus of heat. The issue is, a cubic ft of 50degree ambient air has a lot more heat in it than a cubic foot of 0 degree air. Therefore, as the ambient temp drops, so does the efficiency of a heat pump and based of system design and efficiency there is a point of "diminishing returns", i.e. you are better off just heating with a resistance heater vs. a heat pump.

I suspect, "gone are they days" when you could pick up a can of refrigerant at your local auto parts store, and recharge your own automotive AC system. These new Heat Pump/AC systems require specialized training and equipment for repairs and a good tech it will be a combination of good old mechanical/refrigeration skills and digital electronics. I am sure these new systems use CPU's in order to get the maximum system efficiency. Therefore heat pumps will add more CPU & Software tech to the vehicle and it will take a while for the technical community to catch up. However, up here in Minnesota, when we have subzero ambient temps I don't know if heat pumps will make much of a difference , but they definitely will on a 50 degree day.

 

[grein002]

Replying to Peugfan's post "So you think an OCTO-VALVE with 20+(don't remember exact number) operating modes is simpler than a five way (PENTA VALVE) system LOLOLOL."

So, heat pumps in general are pretty simple, not much different than AC-only units. However, designing for very low temps in a vehicle requires multiple operating modes and a lot of valves / plumbing. The purpose of the octovalve is to simplify implementation of a complex multi-mode heat pump from a plumbing and packaging perspective, not to make it a simple single-mode heat pump.

 

[jdeve]

I have never used my frunk in my first year of ownership.

 

[mkhuffman]

I have never used my frunk in my first year of ownership.

You need to get Chinese take-out more often.

Basically, what I’ve been ranting about all along. The sad thing is that we are likely going to have to wait for “out of spec blowhard” to publish one of his epic 4 hour videos, rambling on about the back roads of the Rockies to get any kind of info on the “performance” of the heat pump, and by then, it will be the middle of July! ???

Sandy can fix it.

 

[Doobster6]

I have never used my frunk in my first year of ownership.

I used mine once, in the first month of ownership, just because I could. But I could just have easily put the same stuff in the back with the seats folded. Nevertheless, I consider a frunk a nice thing to have JIC, and I agree with others here who suggest that better engineering, perhaps leveraging the octovalve system, might have saved the frunk from shrinking.

 

[SpeedRacer72]

The dual 5-way coolant valves would be the functional equivalent of the Tesla Octavalve. With the heat pump, both systems would now have similar functionality as a whole.

You seem to know a lot about the MME.
What is the purpose of the shutters on the front?
I hit a jackrabbit with my MME a few years ago and it busted the shutter, it was $8,000 in repairs.

 

[SanCarlosJeff]

You seem to know a lot about the MME.
What is the purpose of the shutters on the front?
I hit a jackrabbit with my MME a few years ago and it busted the shutter, it was $8,000 in repairs.

Active shutters are on a lot of cars to allow for better aerodymics at speed. They are probably there to help cool the battery in high temp situations on the MME.

 

[RWG]

I experienced the same surprise, the wind forced a construction cone in my path, I was traveling at low speed, it was a construction zone, as such I "bumped the orange cone,"when I got it home I found the proximity sensor was damaged, as well as the shutters. The repairs were a few thousand dollars. I was told the shutters open and close to help manage AC performance and cool the batteries when needed. Those plastic components are fragile and expensive.

 

[bbulkow]

As a former, now retired, refrigeration tech and Product Manager, I agree with many of the comments. Heat pumps are complicated and technical problems will most likely baffle many techs. However I think I understand the Product Management/Engineering motivation.

EV batter Range is a big issue. Here in Minnesota, last week when temps were subzero, when I looked at the trip app. on my 2021 MACH E there were times when as much as 40% of my battery power was allegedly used to heat the cabin and batteries. That severally reduced our battery mileage range but it was no big deal because we only made short trips around town. Heat Pumps are theoretically more efficient than electric heaters so everyone is jumping on the "heat pump technology bandwagon" in an effort to improve EV range. Years ago a household heat pump was not very efficient when the ambients dropped to the 30's and 40's. So when trying to heat your house with a heat pump at those temps. it was not the most cost efficient. i.e you were better off just heating with electricity. But science and engineering has advanced and now heat pumps are much better/efficient at lower ambient temps. However, they are complicated and like any new technology there will be a reliability learning curve. It will probably take a while to workout the issues. All of us, who worked in the refrigeration & AC community knew the the more complicated a system was lead to new reliability and repair challenges. I suspect it will be the same with heat pumps in cars but heat pump technology is not new but it is evolving, fast.


The basic operational theory of a Heat Pump is it can extract the heat from the ambient air and put it in your vehicle more efficiently than running electric heaters which put out 3.41 btus per watt. At higher ambients, heat pumps can be more than 200 times more efficient, or as an example, 1 watt of expended electrical energy to run a heat pump could, theoretically give you over 600 btus of heat. The issue is, a cubic ft of 50degree ambient air has a lot more heat in it than a cubic foot of 0 degree air. Therefore, as the ambient temp drops, so does the efficiency of a heat pump and based of system design and efficiency there is a point of "diminishing returns", i.e. you are better off just heating with a resistance heater vs. a heat pump.

I suspect, "gone are they days" when you could pick up a can of refrigerant at your local auto parts store, and recharge your own automotive AC system. These new Heat Pump/AC systems require specialized training and equipment for repairs and a good tech it will be a combination of good old mechanical/refrigeration skills and digital electronics. I am sure these new systems use CPU's in order to get the maximum system efficiency. Therefore heat pumps will add more CPU & Software tech to the vehicle and it will take a while for the technical community to catch up. However, up here in Minnesota, when we have subzero ambient temps I don't know if heat pumps will make much of a difference , but they definitely will on a 50 degree day.

Here here.

I notice that 15% of my battery range goes to climate. I'm not crazy about it. And I drive in California and I don't think ever below 30F.

I spent a lot of money to buy a battery that was about 15% larger. And heavier.

The "mechanical complexity" is low. It's valves.

The complexity of debugging a failure in the system is high - but valves throw error codes when they stick. Code is thrown, tech replaces valve. That's about all you can expect these days. There's no "shade tree" "heck, look at that ding in that there coolant pipe, that's in the fourth phase of the anti-compressor, just like I suspected - let's pull that ding out and get you back on the road"

It does look REALLY complicated. But that's what engineering companies are supposed to be doing.

I'm sure they'll make it simpler the rev after.

 

[Mach-Lee]

You seem to know a lot about the MME.
What is the purpose of the shutters on the front?
I hit a jackrabbit with my MME a few years ago and it busted the shutter, it was $8,000 in repairs.

The active grille shutters are there to help reduce drag. Having them closed makes the car more aerodynamic. They will only open when cooling is needed, and can adjust anywhere from 0 to 100% open. Ford has used this technology on their other cars for about the past 10 years to improve fuel economy.

 

[motto]

Looking forward to seeing performance numbers at various temps. That will allow anyone to determine if it will make a meaningful impact for their specific climate.

As for reliability/maintenance: Time will tell for this particular implementation of a Heat pump system. Overall this tech isn't that radically new and Ford is not trail-blazing but following the industry trend.

 

[SpeedRacer72]

The active grille shutters are there to help reduce drag. Having them closed makes the car more aerodynamic. They will only open when cooling is needed, and can adjust anywhere from 0 to 100% open. Ford has used this technology on their other cars for about the past 10 years to improve fuel economy.

Interesting. Thanks.

 

[CarGuy11]

@Mach-Lee Can you confirm this system scavenges waste heat from the motors etc?

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