Advice for PHEV replacement?

[deadduck]

I simply do not see any value in any PHEV if it does not qualify for the tax credit. With the extra $$ over regular hybrid. It takes a long time to get those $$ back. And the electric only 10 sec 0-60 can't be too pleasant to drive. For that 46K price, I would rather get an NX350h.

From a pure dollars and sense perspective, especially with the ADM on some of these, you are 100% correct. Mazda will have a PHEV or gas, no mild hybrid or whatever they're called. Although the PHEV NX is more loaded than a $46K 350H. A comparable hybrid NX is probably in the low 50's. Still a $10K difference.

The 10 second 0 to 60 only happens when the battery is completely depleted or you set it in EV. I doubt that happens very much in normal driving.

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[voxel]

From a pure dollars and sense perspective, especially with the ADM on some of these, you are 100% correct. Mazda will have a PHEV or gas, no mild hybrid or whatever they're called. Although the PHEV NX is more loaded than a $46K 350H. A comparable hybrid NX is probably in the low 50's. Still a $10K difference.

The 10 second 0 to 60 only happens when the battery is completely depleted or you set it in EV. I doubt that happens very much in normal driving.

10 seconds sounds slow but all that matters is often 0 to 30. R4P does 0 to 60 in 9.2 seconds in EV mode which sounds ICE slow but the initial jolt to 30 is all that matters.

From this video, 0 to 30 is around 2.3 seconds.

City driving was great in the Prime. Loved it. Highway trips... forget it. Buzzy engine. Wind noise. Crappy Toyota adaptive cruise that would just ping pong (reactively keeping in lane). I'd rather suffer with DC charging than drive the Prime on a road trip.

 

[fmtexmme]

Lincoln Corsair/Aviator were on my list when I was shopping. There's also an escape PHEV but it's a bit more basic, fwd only

I will second the Lincoln Corsair GT. I bought one for my wife last October. Great car!

 

[RickMachE]

I simply do not see any value in any PHEV if it does not qualify for the tax credit. With the extra $$ over regular hybrid. It takes a long time to get those $$ back. And the electric only 10 sec 0-60 can't be too pleasant to drive. For that 46K price, I would rather get an NX350h.

I can understand the credit point. When we bought our 2018 Fusion Energi, we leased it because Ford was providing A-Plan leases an extra $2k off. And, they were folding the tax credit in. And, the model had a lot of rebates. MSRP was $37,390. A-Plan was $34,155.76 (invoice was $35,432.76). Our total rebate, including all of the above, was $11,007, bringing the cost down to $23,148.76. This was well below the cost of the Fusion Hybrid, and below the cost of ICE trim I would buy with the bigger engine. It was a no brainer. Our total cost over 3 years, including lease payments and lease buyout was $27,465.03. Carvana paid us $25,546, so our out of pocket cost over 3 years was $1,919.03. Not much more than sales tax.

As to the acceleration, even if we selected EV only mode, my recollection was that if you stomped on it, the gas engine kicked in eventually, but not positive. The gas engine would literally scream when you accelerated to get on the highway.

 

[agoldman]

lexus nx 450+ has good range for a phev

 

[4sallypat]

In general, I still think a PHEV is probably a better solution to handle most driving profiles. Enough electric-only range to accommodate 90%+ of typical daily driving, and ability to road trip without having to worry about finding a working charger and waiting 35 minutes to fuel.

I strongly considered a RAV4 Prime when I bought the MME. If my wife didn't have an irrational hatred for Toyota vehicles (we've never owned one to base experience from) and they hadn't been selling with incredible dealer mark-up, I likely would have bought it instead.

My boss just bought one of the new Cherokee plug-ins and loves it. Winters are relatively mild here in California, but he's able to make the 35 mile each way commute almost fully on electric every day, charges during the day, and commutes back. I've ridden it a few times and enjoyed it.

Yes agreed, a PHEV has the EV advantages (CA state HOV + rebates) and the ability to use fuel for extended drives.

My wife's Clarity PHEV has been an awesome car for over 5 years without a hitch or problem.
Only annoying thing is that the 1.5L engine never turns on but requires an oil change every year.

Wife was not happy with full BEV when we drove distance and had to stop at 3 EV chargers to get home which is why she is not taking the incoming MME.
I may end up with the MME but depends on the numbers and tax credit....

 

[voxel]

Luv Toyota in NY (near Buffalo) have two RAV4 Prime SEs (Bluesprint and Silver) available on the lot right now. I think their "markup" is like a $1.5K dealer add on. It used to be zilch. I just pinged the salesguy (Errik Gordon) I dealt with a year ago. They have 17 but 15 are pre sold lol.

 

[MachTee]

Matt (who owns a Mach E) from The Smoking Tire just did kind of a comparison between a Polestar 2 and a Volvo XC60 PHEV. That Volvo is quite impressive - 40 miles EV range, 450HP in hybrid mode, 0-60 in 4.5 seconds.

If I must only have one car, I'd go with a PHEV at this time. I replaced two Lexus hybrids with two Hyundai PHEV after having an EV in my garage since 2018. While I still had the Mach E last year, I traded my 2019 RX450h for a Tucson PHEV. Actually it'll be exactly one year tomorrow on that trade. Even though I actually did get 31MPG out of the RX hybrid (and 27-28MPG in winter), which is great for a mid sized V6 SUV, after driving EVs for 3yrs, paying $0.13/mile sucks (RX hybrid requires $4/gal premium gas). I've long been a Lexus fan, having owned every generation of the RX, I gave my dealer a $1K deposit on the NX plugin the moment it was announced. I've bought multiple cars from my salesman and he verbally agreed it'll be MSRP. And then he retired and the salesman assigned to me said it'll be $20K ADM.

Anyway, checkout the Hyundai's and Kia's range of PHEV's. With the exception of the Niro PHEV, they're the same PHEV powertrain - 261HP, low 30's miles EV range, mid-high 30's MPG in HEV mode (I easily beat that). I'm very pleased with the Tucson PHEV. The longest I've driven it on one charge was 44 miles on local roads. The surprising thing is that the Tucson is even quieter than the RX450h with the V6 hybrid. A bit disappointing that the new RX is all 4 cylinder now. Toyota's 4 cylinder engine is not known to be quiet.

 

[futurerustanddust]

We have both an Audi Q5 PHEV and the Volvo XC60 T8 Recharge. Both are great, but we prefer the XC60 over the Q5 for a number of reasons. The Volvo's combined range in the summer is near 600 miles, especially if mostly done on the highway, which was really nice. In the winter it is closer to 550. Both have the option to charge the battery with the engine if you need, but I've never found that to be necessary. The Volvo in Power mode is an absolute beast, accelerating surprisingly fast.

 

[dtbaker61]

Hey everyone. Looking for some advice. Have had a 21 Premium awd extended range for 18 months and have loved it. But now have a need to drive from Iowa to Colorado on a fairly regular basis and am considering changing to a PHEV that will let me use electric only most days for commuting to work but make the trips to Colorado faster.

Any suggestions?

Have looked at the Grand Cherokee 4xe and like it (especially considering mountain driving in Colorado) but would love to hear your thoughts.

Thanks!

totally depends on your priorities....
SUV or Sedan?
FWD or AWD?
price range?

my wife has a BMW 330e, sedan, x-Drive.
great for road trippin, she wanted Sedan, not SUV

 

[MW1515]

Lamborghini makes a PHEV now, so that could still fit the OP's requirements ?

https://www.cnn.com/2023/03/29/business/lamborghini-revuelto-hybrid/index.html

 

[Billyk24]

Energi with the air vooled battery pack? Yep that is the problem right there. Inept thermal regulation causing battery capacity to drop big time. 30% loss of capacity is frequrntly reported on sites. My CMax is just .01kWh loss due to monitor of battery stress and tempersture.

Really? The Ford website still just says FWD.

Lincoln Corsair Grand Touring phev has awd in the same form (third motor generator) as Rav4 Prime. More HP than the Escape and can tow 2500 lbs. Downside. That on board charger rated all 3.3kW as found in thd old Ford CMax Energi.

 

[LincolnLuvr]

Will the 2024 Aviator Grand Touring get a bump in range? The 2023 model is rated at a measly 18 miles.

Here's where the Chinese Wey Coffee 01 gets it right. Bizarre name aside, it has a 40 kwH battery good for 90 miles of electric only range. I don't understand why more manufacturers don't do this and make a PHEV with a larger battery pack. The public charging network and battery tech are still in their infancy. Will be at least 5 years before they're a little more developed.

https://www.carwow.co.uk/news/6432/wey-coffee-01-coming-to-europe-price-specs-release-date#gref

 

[SWO]

I also have a 21 Escape PHEV.

IF you don't need AWD, it is a great option. I get 45-49mi of EV range in the summer, ~37 in the winter. Spent just over $30k for it including tax incentives.

I see lots of people mentioning the RAV4 Prime. It is a good vehicle, but prices are irrational - you will spend more on the premium for one than you will ever save in gas.

My advice - get an eCVT if you are buying a PHEV, whatever you get. This is what Ford, Toyota, and maybe a couple others use.

Forgot the obligatory mileage pic. It gets this range with only a 10.x gal fuel tank. 47mpg mixed city/hwy all day with depleted battery, 39mpg hwy. It is gutless but a great commuter / car for the kid.

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