Battery Life/ Preservation/Health

SpaceEVDriver

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100% displayed is about 96% actual. (After 37,000 miles). I think that figure was just over 1% lower when the car was new. (Around 95.2% if I remember correctly....) That may indicate that my battery has degraded around 1.2% so far in 37,000 miles. Not sure though.....it actually is a much more complicated thing to determine.
Let's pretend it is 1.2% degradation over the ~1.25 years you've had the battery. If everything was linear (it's not, but let's pretend some more), then that would imply about 20% loss of capacity in a bit less than 21 years, assuming you keep it that long and keep doing what you're doing.

If everything is linear, it would also suggest about 617,000 miles before losing about 20% of the battery capacity.

Obviously battery degradation isn't linear, but it can be approximated as linear over shorter periods of time and over fewer charge-discharge-cycles. Degradation does tend to get worse over time.

I'd say this makes me feel even better about the battery lifetime.
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woody

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There is no problem with everyday MME usage.
My only concern is, why not let us have the battery capacity we thought we were buying?
It makes a big difference for me. 30 miles more range is a big difference.
I do not do many road trips, but the ones I want to do are to MN/Fargo. With the full battery that trip is possible. Without the full battery, not feasible(too much work, too much down time, not enough reliable charging along the way, unreliable Ford software, etc.).
 

SpaceEVDriver

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There is no problem with everyday MME usage.
My only concern is, why not let us have the battery capacity we thought we were buying?
It makes a big difference for me. 30 miles more range is a big difference.
I do not do many road trips, but the ones I want to do are to MN/Fargo. With the full battery that trip is possible. Without the full battery, not feasible(too much work, too much down time, not enough reliable charging along the way, unreliable Ford software, etc.).
I absolutely agree with you on this. We can do most of our *necessary* road trips without trouble (1400 mile round trip is fine, 2000 mile round trip is fine if we take the main highway).

There are a couple of road trips we would like to do into the desert southwest that are on the edge of feasible because of very low density of DCFC distribution. Thirty more miles of actual range would make a huge difference.
 

SpeedRacer72

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Is it okay to charge to 100%? Like does it really matter if we’re slow charging it to 100%? The reason I ask is I recall watching a video on YT, someone reviewed the Hummer EV, and they said that GM is confident that, with their battery, it doesn’t matter if the owner wants to charge past 80%. Has anyone been charging to 100% frequently? Why or why doesn’t it matter with Ford’s battery?
I have had my MME since Sep. 2021. I have 28,000 miles. I commute 150 miles per day. I charge to 100% everyday. At 100% my GOM indicates about 172 miles of range. So I basically fully charge and discharge my battery everyday. I have seen no degradation. I have waypoints where I check my batt %, and now that the weather is warming back up, the percentage is about the same as last year. I attribute the small difference to the change in the speed I drive. Last year i was driving at 80 MPH on the freeway and now I drive 85 MPH on the freeway.

I charge at work, so I am at 100% for only an hour or two before I start driving. I use a 9 KWH charger and it takes about 7-8 hours to charge everyday. I am usually around 12-15 % SOC when I start charging. But there have been many times throughout the winter where I was down to 5%.
I have noticed that once the car gets to 99%, the charge rate goes down to 1 KWH. That last 1 percent charge takes about 20-30 minutes.
My concern is the cooling fan, when charging at 9 KWH, the fan runs at high speed the whole day.
I hope Ford installed a durable fan motor.
When the battery is fully 100% charged, the first 1/2 mile or so, the regen does not work. I think it is because the BMS limits the charge rate to the battery to 1 KWH rate. Once I have driven about 3 miles, the regen is back to normal.

7DE00140-0431-4C00-94FA-32AEBC9E4004.jpeg
 

timbop

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There is no problem with everyday MME usage.
My only concern is, why not let us have the battery capacity we thought we were buying?
It makes a big difference for me. 30 miles more range is a big difference.
I do not do many road trips, but the ones I want to do are to MN/Fargo. With the full battery that trip is possible. Without the full battery, not feasible(too much work, too much down time, not enough reliable charging along the way, unreliable Ford software, etc.).
For one, letting you discharge down near true zero could kill the battery completely, and letting every owner go up to "true" 100% on a daily basis would mean floods of complaints about "after a year my car lost 10%". Ford doesn't have the luxury of letting users shoot themselves in the foot, even those users that know they are aiming for their big toe.

They have to engineer for the least knowledgable and first-to-scream-bloody-murder customer, just like Tesla, GM, Rivian, Kia, etc etc
 


SpaceEVDriver

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For one, letting you discharge down near true zero could kill the battery completely, and letting every owner go up to "true" 100% on a daily basis would mean floods of complaints about "after a year my car lost 10%". Ford doesn't have the luxury of letting users shoot themselves in the foot, even those users that know they are aiming for their big toe.

They have to engineer for the least knowledgable and first to scream bloody murder customer, just like Tesla, GM, Rivian, Kia, etc etc
I also agree 100% with this.

See how conflicted I am.

I'd like to know the charge algorithm and where it's controlled in the modules so I can go in and hack it when I "need" to so I can charge the battery closer to its true maximum capacity and discharge it down closer to 0% (maybe).

For certain road trips, this would be a wonderful configuration I would like to activate. I'd leave it to Ford's experts most of the time.
 

RickMachE

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There is no problem with everyday MME usage.
My only concern is, why not let us have the battery capacity we thought we were buying?
It makes a big difference for me. 30 miles more range is a big difference.
I do not do many road trips, but the ones I want to do are to MN/Fargo. With the full battery that trip is possible. Without the full battery, not feasible(too much work, too much down time, not enough reliable charging along the way, unreliable Ford software, etc.).
The full battery you thought you were buying? 88kWh is the only size that Ford ever stated, no? And they're going to give you 91 at some point.
 

woody

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OK.
So the 99kWh was a figment of my imagination.
However, I was unaware of the 91kWh promise as well.
And you may be right. GM may not allow regen. at 100%. Even though there is secretly more room in the battery.
Have to find the right stuff to read.
 

SpaceEVDriver

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OK.
So the 99kWh was a figment of my imagination.
However, I was unaware of the 91kWh promise as well.
And you may be right. GM may not allow regen. at 100%. Even though there is secretly more room in the battery.
Have to find the right stuff to read.
The Ford official number is 88 kWh for the ER battery.

You are still using the full capacity of the battery. You're just not driving on the full capacity. The main other use is maintaining battery longevity.
 

woody

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Went back and looked up spec. sheets. Battery capacity was listed as 98.8kWh. I was not hallucinating.
Other places, eg. sticker, listed usable capacity as 88kWh.
However, Ford website now lists usable energy as 91kWh.???(perhaps more recent builds?)
Ford does not provide me with any information about updates, I have no idea what my usable capacity/range is. (I do know that I am getting updates because the car functions differently [location, regenerative braking, Bluetooth, etc.] when they install. Some of the changes are oddly temporary.)
Until I do some longer trips to figure it out, I will not know what I have in usable energy.
Not as tech. streetwise as you guys.
It would be reasonably expected to get information from Ford when things change.
There probably is somewhere out there where the information is available, but I know not where.

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Went back and looked up spec. sheets. Battery capacity was listed as 98.8kWh. I was not hallucinating.
Other places, eg. sticker, listed usable capacity as 88kWh.
However, Ford website now lists usable energy as 91kWh.???(perhaps more recent builds?)
Ford does not provide me with any information about updates, I have no idea what my usable capacity/range is. (I do know that I am getting updates because the car functions differently [location, regenerative braking, Bluetooth, etc.] when they install. Some of the changes are oddly temporary.)
Until I do some longer trips to figure it out, I will not know what I have in usable energy.
Not as tech. streetwise as you guys.
It would be reasonably expected to get information from Ford when things change.
There probably is somewhere out there where the information is available, but I know not where.

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  • Again, Ford made the mistake of telling you what the actual capacity is in addition to the usable capacity - unlike GM and Tesla. They're learning and won't make that mistake again.
  • There are many threads on here from last fall discussing the increase in usable capacity. First Darren Palmer talked about it as a possibility, and then cars built later in 2021 started shipping with 91kwh usable vs 88kwh.
  • this wiki is a good place to read about the changes in each powerup/ota version. I believe 2.4.2 and/or the service bulletin that improved charging (whose number I can't remember) is when the buffer size changed so usable went from 88 to 91kwh on the ER
 

SpaceEVDriver

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I apologize. I was looking at Ford's official documentation online that read 88 kWh. That's obviously out of date.

My 2022 window sticker says "91 kWh usable" battery.

I'd have to look at the values in the car's computer to see if that's the value it reports internally. I thought it had read ~88 kWh the last time I looked, but I'll have to double-check.
 

timbop

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I apologize. I was looking at Ford's official documentation online that read 88 kWh. That's obviously out of date.

My 2022 window sticker says "91 kWh usable" battery.

I'd have to look at the values in the car's computer to see if that's the value it reports internally. I thought it had read ~88 kWh the last time I looked, but I'll have to double-check.
The first cars had 88kwh on the sticker (for ER), but in the fall of 21 it went to 91
 

SpaceEVDriver

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The first cars had 88kwh on the sticker (for ER), but in the fall of 21 it went to 91
Right. And I'd forgotten what my sticker said.

The last time I ran Car Scanner I thought my car's battery capacity read ~88.8 kWh at 100% charge, but I can't be certain.
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