Charging at 80a

[Miav8r]

With EV’s being around for over a decade, lessons have been learned through experience. Such as, a standard, $15 14-50 outlet providing power to a household appliance for an hour or two is no issue but supplying 40a to an EV for 6-8 hours has caused many to fail. As I consider adding a 100a circuit and installing an 80a EVSE for future proofing, are there other weak links in home systems, like circuit breakers or breaker box buses, that could be an issue as we draw higher amperage for extended periods?

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[generaltso]

Car companies seem to be shying away from 80A charging. I’m not sure it’s worth the added expense. Especially if it would require a service upgrade.

 

[4wheeldog]

Are 80 amp chargers even commonly available? And what problem will you be solving? Do you really need a faster turn around when charging?
Solving problems that are perceived rather than real is usually expensive, compared to just using what is a standard approach.

 

[Kamuelaflyer]

With EV’s being around for over a decade, lessons have been learned through experience. Such as, a standard, $15 14-50 outlet providing power to a household appliance for an hour or two is no issue but supplying 40a to an EV for 6-8 hours has caused many to fail. As I consider adding a 100a circuit and installing an 80a EVSE for future proofing, are there other weak links in home systems, like circuit breakers or breaker box buses, that could be an issue as we draw higher amperage for extended periods?

The weak link in all of these is the outlet. That’s what has failed. The most common outlet used allows wires to work loose and arc. Anything over 40 amps is hardwired. That should resolve most issues.

 

[ChasingCoral]

Are 80 amp chargers even commonly available? And what problem will you be solving? Do you really need a faster turn around when charging?
Solving problems that are perceived rather than real is usually expensive, compared to just using what is a standard approach.

Yes, a few companies make 80A chargers but they are not the norm. Unless you drive an EV with a really big battery (Lightning, Silverado, Hummer) for long distances on a regular basis, 48A is plenty. Besides, most EVs can't charge faster than 48A. Even the new Lightnings have dropped the 80A charger. It's only an option for fleet sales now.

 

[Teslaeata]

I can fully see the logic.

I went over the top with 32A from a 22kW charge point though Stangy can only take 11kW, thought I was future proofing at 32A, but 80A, what are you expecting ????

I would’ve though 80A supply would come out of the supply after meter but before the domestic circuitry, cut-outs etc so shouldn’t rely on any potential weak links there.

Go for it?

 

[Mike G]

Ford included an 80A charger (the 'FCSP') with 2022 Lightning Lariats and above (as part of the sale).

It needed to be hardwired with a 100amp breaker.

Mine is still in the box.

According to the workshop manual for the Mach-E, in addition to the portable charger that charges at roughly 30 amps, "A 240V (AC Level 2) household charging station can also be utilized rated up to 40 amps or commercial charging station rated up to 80 amps."

Which is a bit strange actually. I use a Wallbox Plus 48a unit now and I routinely see it charging at 11.1Kw,

If I wanted to, I could have the Ford FCSP that is still in the box installed, and that is rated to charge up to 80 amps tops. I don't know if that's what they are considering a "commercial charging station" or not.

I know newer Lightnings (with some exceptions) will now only charge at 40 or 48amps max because one of the two onboard chargers that originally came with 2022 models (and 2023?) has been removed, probably because Ford figured out that most home EVSEs were 40 amp units, so what was the point?

 

[Rusky]

On a side note your receptacle should be able to supply the required amperage without issue, even for 8 hours. You can also get a hard wired 40 amp charger if you like, they make them. I've been using my plug in charger for almost 3 years with no issues as I'm sure many more here have been as well. My son has been using his for 6 years without issue.

 

[eponey]

I think the max speed was set by j1772 which was 80A.
Now that we've moved to NACS who knows since those pins support more current.

The cost of running larger circuits gets pretty costly pretty fast I think its plenty expensive to run the 60 or so amps needed for 48A charging, cost to run 80A stuff would be crazy.

Plus these big circuits generate lots of heat...

 

[AKgrampy]

And my experience while working for a Utility was people would build a brand new house and try to go cheap on their service entrance equipment. From several posts I have read I see the same issue at times with EV’s. People spend $50 - $80,000 on a new EV and then try to skimp on their electrical set-up. No matter what use quality components, don’t take short cuts, and if you do not know what you are doing hire a professional.

 

[Mike G]

I think the max speed was set by j1772 which was 80A.
Now that we've moved to NACS who knows since those pins support more current.

The cost of running larger circuits gets pretty costly pretty fast I think its plenty expensive to run the 60 or so amps needed for 48A charging, cost to run 80A stuff would be crazy.

Plus these big circuits generate lots of heat...

? I charge at a flat rate of .11 per Kw.

The 48A Wallbox directly replaced my 14-50 outlet (that was on the same 60a breaker) that used to be used with the craptastic Webasco-produced Ford portable charger(s). I've had 4 of those. 3 of them got to the point where they just would rather overheat than do much charging. That's why I went with the Wallbox Plus.

But I'm still trying to figure out how your statement that it "gets costly pretty fast". Are you saying that the necessary wiring size and the need for a 100a breaker are the additional factors?

I don't know if simply changing the charge port to a NACs receptacle would change the car's ability to accept anything more than the 11kw it charges at now. That's a function of the onboard charging module.

 

[Kamuelaflyer]

On a side note your receptacle should be able to supply the required amperage without issue, even for 8 hours. You can also get a hard wired 40 amp charger if you like, they make them. I've been using my plug in charger for almost 3 years with no issues as I'm sure many more here have been as well. My son has been using his for 6 years without issue.

Some evse’s have the ability to switch the amperage delivered between various settings. I chose the hardwired option on our Emporia so I can go up to 48 amps. The app allows me to select a variety of charging amps, mine is set at 40 but you can lower all the way to 6 amps should you do desire. Emporia is not unique either. Just another option for folks who’d like a hardwired EVSE at a lower amperage.

 

[music_cities]

In terms of "future proofing", the breaker or terminal devices at either end of the wire can easily be upgraded if you ever actually install an 80 amp EVSE, so I'd just focus on the wires right now. I installed a 48 amp (60 amp breaker) EVSE for "future proofing" and paid extra for an EVEMS. I should have just paid for the thicker wire, and skipped the EVEMS for now, since I don't really ever need to charge any faster than 24 amps overnight.

Higher amp charging will be handy if I ever get time-of-use pricing on electricity.

 

[GreaseMonkey]

My crystal ball is currently showing that in the future, cars will be more aerodynamic, battery tech will evolve to enable smaller / lighter batteries, and charging infrastructure will improve. All these things should lead to lower, not higher electricity consumption and therefore charging speeds.

We are living the worse case scenario right now.

 

[Maui]

What scenario would require 80 amp service at your home?

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