Charging challenge

[DR.J56]

I too will not DCFC. I bought the MME for local travel only. I have other ICE vehicles for travel. I don’t have the time or the patience for DCFC. As a matter of fact, I put a larger diesel tank on my truck (70 gallons, 1200+ miles when not hauling) so I don’t have to stop at stations as much. Pee breaks are easy off and on at rest stops, 5 minutes at most. Fueling at truck stops with high speed nozzles cuts the actual stop time down also.

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[bgarrett4917]

Going on a road trip later this year and wanted to test the EA network around my area. Tried two EA locations and both had half of the stations inoperable. The screens were blank and couldn't charge. I used EA a couple of years ago on a road trip and they seemed okay. From what I read, it sounds like Electrify America is getting worse as time goes by not better. It looks like they need to focus on maintenance and reliability before they increase the number of stations they have.

A stuck piece of plastics is actually minor compared to the horror stories I read about with the stations burning up and frying the EV charger inside the car.

 

[Tampamike]

It is a portable Panasonic EVSE originally sold for the Nissan Leaf, then modified by an aftermarket outfit named EVSEUpgrade to push up to 20 amps at 240V and up to 12 amps at 120V. The aftermarket outfit faded away some years ago... their upgraded units are still around and are very reliable, unlike the Ford Mach E portable EVSE. I use it because of its utter reliability and because it is long paid-for.

We’re looking to make a road trip out west this fall. I’ve read about the RV park charging option. Question - are all the RV hookups equipped with the NEMA 14-50 plug Or is there another plug that would require an adaptor?

 

[Mach1E]

We are still in early days for EVs. In early days of gas stations, and honestly even in not so early days, gas stations sometimes ran out of gas. I get why some people want to avoid taking EVs on longer drives right now, but the ability to road trip an EV has changed so much in the past decade, and will be so different in the next 5-10 years. Fast charging EVs will become easier, faster, and more pleasant over time. Charging locations will be as widespread as gas stations today. It seems awfully silly to compare what is still a relatively new and evolving technology to one a century old, without acknowledging the fact that fast charging and the ability to road trip EVs is improving year after year. These forums exist to discuss the newest tech in cars, especially the parts that are still works in progress. Gas stations aren't a work in progress, and haven't been in decades, because they have had a century to get to where they are today, so of course ICE car forums aren't focused on them so much as they focus on more rapidly evolving tech in ICE cars.

What’s silly is comparing gas stations from 80 years ago to charging today.

When I go to my garage and get in a car to take a trip, what happened 80 years ago doesn’t matter.

You say that “road tripping in an EV has changed so much in the past decade…”

Has it though?

Seems like the same issues that were a problem for Tesla a decade ago we are dealing with today. Cost, speed and charger availability.

You also say “Charging locations will be as widespread as gas stations today.”

Will they though? The benefit of a BEV is charging at home. I need gas stations near my home, I need DC chargers far away from home. The vast majority of refueling happens at home now and will continue to be in the future.

You also said “we are in the early day for EVs.” Also false. Electric cars are as old and ICE cars.

We need to quit making excuses for the horrible charge networks.

 

[21st Century Pony]

We’re looking to make a road trip out west this fall. I’ve read about the RV park charging option. Question - are all the RV hookups equipped with the NEMA 14-50 plug Or is there another plug that would require an adaptor?

Although there also is an older NEMA 30 amp 3-prong 120V plug at RV park points, you really want the 4-prong 240V plug. The 120V plug defaults to a very slow emergency-only charge rate.

Out West, public (state and national forest) campgrounds often have these 240V plug points and that makes all the difference, especially at the very cheap camping price. Good luck!

 

[AZBill]

I am on my third EV and have done many DCFCs. When you insert the CCS plug into the car, you should hear a mechanical "click", when it fully inserts. If you do not hear that, then you should check the plug and the car port for debri. After that the MME will immediately engage the locking lever, and you can hear the motor for that running. On other vehicles it may not do that step until the charge initiates, but the MME does that right away.

There is also a failure mode where the latching lever in the car can get stuck engaged. That can cause the CCS to get stuck in the car, if it was charging, or it can block the CCS connector from being pushed all the way in (no click). There is a procedure in the manual for releasing that lever by opening the frunk and removing the panel on the charge port side. Everyone should familiarize themselves with that procedure, just in case.

NACS does not eliminate these potential issues with debri or a failed locking pin.

 

[Reign of Ravens]

You also say “Charging locations will be as widespread as gas stations today.”

Will they though? The benefit of a BEV is charging at home. I need gas stations near my home, I need DC chargers far away from home. The vast majority of refueling happens at home now and will continue to be in the future.

This is a very home owner-focused view that neglects what renters and apartment-dwellers might face, but it does raise a good point about what the future may look like. In theory, there should be more chargers than gas stations, not only because the charging takes longer, but because in theory you can put them just about anywhere. No need to install a large fuel tank, electricity is all around us. But what type of charger is a bigger question. Level 3 chargers are expensive and, by speeding up the charging process, may not be what a business wants.

You also said “we are in the early day for EVs.” Also false. Electric cars are as old and ICE cars.

You know what they meant. It'll be interesting to see how things change - simply throwing level 3 chargers around like gas stations may not be cost-effective for charging networks, particularly when people can either charge at home or possibly use cheaper level 2 chargers at businesses or work.

 

[Mach1E]

This is a very home owner-focused view that neglects what renters and apartment-dwellers might face, but it does raise a good point about what the future may look like. In theory, there should be more chargers than gas stations, not only because the charging takes longer, but because in theory you can put them just about anywhere. No need to install a large fuel tank, electricity is all around us. But what type of charger is a bigger question. Level 3 chargers are expensive and, by speeding up the charging process, may not be what a business wants.


You know what they meant. It'll be interesting to see how things change - simply throwing level 3 chargers around like gas stations may not be cost-effective for charging networks, particularly when people can either charge at home or possibly use cheaper level 2 chargers at businesses or work.

I was assuming we were taking about level 3 chargers, but it’s a fair point about level 2.

It’s not really me, but the realities of BEV ownership that neglects renters and condo owners. They have to accept a “less than ideal” situation if they want to own a BEV.

There are many problems with the charging infrastructure and unfortunately there aren’t any “cost effective” solutions. And there may never be a cheap fix.

Renters are one issue, another is mass evacuation. You aren’t getting everyone out of the path of a hurricane in electric cars. And when it takes a while to restore power, you aren’t getting everyone home. Gas stations have backup generators.

If we created the infrastructure for mass evacuation, it would be a huge waste of money……. 99% of the time. So I doubt we will fund it.

 

[Reign of Ravens]

Renters are one issue, another is mass evacuation. You aren’t getting everyone out of the path of a hurricane in electric cars. And when it takes a while to restore power, you aren’t getting everyone home. Gas stations have backup generators.

If we created the infrastructure for mass evacuation, it would be a huge waste of money……. 99% of the time. So I doubt we will fund it.

You bring up an interesting point, and my view is different. I've never had to evacuate from a hurricane before (thankfully - honestly, it's one of the things that horrifies me over the prospect of living in Florida). However, reading a bit from news reports, don't people get stranded on the highways? Traffic sometimes comes to a standstill, and cars run out of gas while idling. That's not to say that someone won't run out of electricity while trying to outrun a hurricane, but I'd think an EV would potentially be more beneficial than an ICE vehicle in that scenario.

As for gas stations having backup generators, fuel shipments are still needed. Right now the electrical grid is not satisfactory for powering EVs in the event of a large-scale natural disaster, but as the grid becomes "greener" we're building in resiliency and potentially even compartmentalization. Maybe a charging station is still functional if there are solar panels and a robust battery backup system nearby.

I think gas does have its place. We can potentially make a system that is better than what we have, but we won't realize it if we're just plopping electric as a direct replacement to gas. If the system is changed a bit to reflect what we can do with electricity and some of the different generation and storage options that come along with it, though, I think we can do better than gas.

The future will be interesting.

 

[Mach1E]

You bring up an interesting point, and my view is different. I've never had to evacuate from a hurricane before (thankfully - honestly, it's one of the things that horrifies me over the prospect of living in Florida). However, reading a bit from news reports, don't people get stranded on the highways? Traffic sometimes comes to a standstill, and cars run out of gas while idling. That's not to say that someone won't run out of electricity while trying to outrun a hurricane, but I'd think an EV would potentially be more beneficial than an ICE vehicle in that scenario.

As for gas stations having backup generators, fuel shipments are still needed. Right now the electrical grid is not satisfactory for powering EVs in the event of a large-scale natural disaster, but as the grid becomes "greener" we're building in resiliency and potentially even compartmentalization. Maybe a charging station is still functional if there are solar panels and a robust battery backup system nearby.

I think gas does have its place. We can potentially make a system that is better than what we have, but we won't realize it if we're just plopping electric as a direct replacement to gas. If the system is changed a bit to reflect what we can do with electricity and some of the different generation and storage options that come along with it, though, I think we can do better than gas.

The future will be interesting.

From my experience (4 decades of watching hurricanes and evacuations), stranded on the highway out of gas isn’t really a concern. Even with the traffic jams there are still gas stations everywhere.

Getting fuel after a hurricane- extremely rare concern.

Sebring, FL for example didn’t have electricity for 3 months after Irma. That meant no gasoline either.

Rare situation because of being in the middle of the state.

What was the solution? People drove trucks with portable gas containers from Sebring to neighboring towns. We helped deliver supplies to our friends and co-workers there.

The electric cars? No solution until the power came back.

PHEV with a larger range solves pretty much every concern.

Helps the environment
No need for more infrastructure
Lower cost
Less battery rare materials needed
Best of both worlds in case of an emergency

 

[Reign of Ravens]

The electric cars? No solution until the power came back.

Not quite. For vehicles that support "vehicle to load" (V2L; at this time it seems to mostly be Hyundais and Kias, and the F150 Lightning) you can charge another EV - not necessarily quickly, but doable. And again, if you have decentralized electricity generation capabilities (for most people that's solar panels) then you're a bit buffered compared with what's happening with the grid.

We're used to gas. An electric future can be superior, but right now we're barely at the point where we've reached operational parity.

 

[Mach1E]

Not quite. For vehicles that support "vehicle to load" (V2L; at this time it seems to mostly be Hyundais and Kias, and the F150 Lightning) you can charge another EV - not necessarily quickly, but doable. And again, if you have decentralized electricity generation capabilities (for most people that's solar panels) then you're a bit buffered compared with what's happening with the grid.

We're used to gas. An electric future can be superior, but right now we're barely at the point where we've reached operational parity.

That’s not really practical by any means.

Might work for a couple people but it’s not going to bring support to the masses after a disaster.

I imagine the vehicle to vehicle charging is pretty slow as well.

Solar help but it also has its own issues with hurricanes. Insurers don’t like them as they make your roof more susceptible to damage in a storm.

Just another reminder that the solutions (and problems) vary greatly based on where you live.

 

[Reality Check]

The vast majority of home solar systems are “grid-tied” (with net metering) and so do not and cannot function as long as the power is out.

 

[Billyk24]

We are still in early days for EVs. In early days of gas stations, and honestly even in not so early days, gas stations sometimes ran out of gas. I get why some people want to avoid taking EVs on longer drives right now, but the ability to road trip an EV has changed so much in the past decade, and will be so different in the next 5-10 years. Fast charging EVs will become easier, faster, and more pleasant over time. Charging locations will be as widespread as gas stations today. It seems awfully silly to compare what is still a relatively new and evolving technology to one a century old, without acknowledging the fact that fast charging and the ability to road trip EVs is improving year after year. These forums exist to discuss the newest tech in cars, especially the parts that are still works in progress. Gas stations aren't a work in progress, and haven't been in decades, because they have had a century to get to where they are today, so of course ICE car forums aren't focused on them so much as they focus on more rapidly evolving tech in ICE cars.

Assuming the electrical continues to "add" capacity and under go upgrading then yes. Warnings from power companies on rolling blackouts isn't helpful.

 

[Reign of Ravens]

The vast majority of home solar systems are “grid-tied” (with net metering) and so do not and cannot function as long as the power is out.

If you're planning for disasters then you're probably doing a solar and battery install. Under those circumstances, you can operate without difficulty even if the grid goes down - solar powers your home and charges the batteries, and the batteries fill in when solar isn't meeting your home's energy needs. I don't know the statistics on how many installs are solar-only compared with solar and battery.

On this topic, just another reminder to how amazing BEVs could be for powering things: a single Tesla Powerwall (version 2) has a capacity of 13.5 kWh. When I look at my home's usage - with two refrigerators, and four mini-split AC systems operating (although to be fair, we have the thermostat set higher) - overnight energy usage is about 10-12 kWh. We have multiple Powerwalls to account for vehicle charging and other usage. By comparison, our Mustangs have 72 kWh (standard range) or 91 kWh (extended range) - basically, 5-7 Powerwalls on wheels. Some rewiring of the house would be needed to accept charge from the car, but vehicle to load functionality could have some really good applications for disasters and overall grid efficiency. If you're stranded and the roads around aren't safe to drive on, use your car to keep your refrigerators going, boil water (assuming you have an electric range and/or kettle), and possibly control the climate in your home... or as we saw in Texas before, stay in your garage and run the heater in your car without needing to worry about ventilation.

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