Charging question

[Tampamike]

This is great info! Does anyone know how to change the max from 100% charge in Ford Pass app EV page when plugged in? I set up my preferred charge location at home to 90% but for some reason my charge often goes to 100% despite my settings.

Yes.
In Ford Pass app - go to vehicle page.
Select “Manage Charging”
Select radio button “Manage Charging schedules yourself.”
Under “Manual Charge Settings” select the arrow next to “preferred charge times.”
There should now be a location listed of “Home.”
Under that, don’t select “charge when plugged in” but rather “use preferred charge settings.”
Now select the arrow next to location “home.”
Select the charge level here.
“Set my own time” should be set to “anytime” or something else if you wish.

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[DaMeatMan]

Only charge it above 90% right before using it on a road trip, do not let it sit parked over 90% for more than a few hours to avoid battery degradation, especially in warm temps.

You absolutely don't need to charge above 90% ever unless you need to for extra range. The battery will balance itself at lower charge levels so it stays fully optimized even if you are only charging it to 50% every day.

I know the spec sheets and all the common wisdoms of Lithium ion chemistries tells you not to leave cells sitting at their highest state of charge for long periods of time to avoid plating and dendrite formation.

However allot of real world testing shows that doing so is not as catastrophic as many would lead you to believe. With that said I would point you guys to one such real world test where Jehu Garcia does exactly that. Intentionally charged a bunch of 18650 Lithium ion cells to their max of 4.2v per cell, and threw them in the trunk of his car where they sat untouched for 3 years.

The results may surprise you.



Now when you consider that charging to 90% on the MME is actually the equivalent of charging to 80% and charging to 100% is the equivalent of charging to 90% in reality, you can begin to see that your really quite safe just charging as needed and calling it a day.

That is not to say that there is no degradation at all. But I am saying it's not nearly as problematic as many make it out to be, particularly with the incredibly large safety margins put in place by Ford.

 

[Mach-Lee]

I know the spec sheets and all the common wisdoms of Lithium ion chemistries tells you not to leave cells sitting at their highest state of charge for long periods of time to avoid plating and dendrite formation.

However allot of real world testing shows that doing so is not as catastrophic as many would lead you to believe. With that said I would point you guys to one such real world test where Jehu Garcia does exactly that. Intentionally charged a bunch of 18650 Lithium ion cells to their max of 4.2v per cell, and threw them in the trunk of his car where they sat untouched for 3 years.

The results may surprise you.

Now when you consider that charging to 90% on the MME is actually the equivalent of charging to 80% and charging to 100% is the equivalent of charging to 90% in reality, you can begin to see that your really quite safe just charging as needed and calling it a day.

That is not to say that there is no degradation at all. But I am saying it's not nearly as problematic as many make it out to be, particularly with the incredibly large safety margins put in place by Ford.

I get what you're saying, and agree it's not catastrophic if you go up to 4.2V every once and a while. With that video, he charged the cells and let them sit. That means they would self-discharge to a safer level in a week's time. I wish he would have measured the voltage of that cell before he did anything with it after it's been sitting, it was probably very low after that time, and that might have caused damage too.

There would be much more damage if the cells were MAINTAINED at 4.2V through regular charges.

The concern is if people are repeatedly charging to 100% because they don't change their charge settings or know better, then the cells are spending enough hours up high that they lose their capacity faster than they should.

Tesla does a better job informing the consumer about this because they label the top 10% of the battery meter the "trip" range vs. "daily" range. On the Mach-E the 90% guideline is buried in the manual with no visual clues, so you might never know about it if you a new to EV's.

So yes, it's okay to charge to 100% every once and a while (perhaps few times per month) for longer trips, but it's best practice to minimize the amount of time above 90%. A dozen hours here and there, fine, but you don't want it sitting hundreds of hours up high with regular charging or you might knock extra % off your capacity.

 

[SnBGC]

This is great info! Does anyone know how to change the max from 100% charge in Ford Pass app EV page when plugged in? I set up my preferred charge location at home to 90% but for some reason my charge often goes to 100% despite my settings.

Some have experienced an issue where the car charges to 100% irregardless of the settings so you may be in that group.

Changing the settings in FP.
Vehicle page
Manage EV tab
Charge Times

Select your location >
Change percentage
Then scroll down to find the SAVE button. (That last part tripped me up for a while.....)

 

[SnBGC]

Yes.
In Ford Pass app - go to vehicle page.
Select “Manage Charging”
Select radio button “Manage Charging schedules yourself.”
Under “Manual Charge Settings” select the arrow next to “preferred charge times.”
There should now be a location listed of “Home.”
Under that, don’t select “charge when plugged in” but rather “use preferred charge settings.”
Now select the arrow next to location “home.”
Select the charge level here.
“Set my own time” should be set to “anytime” or something else if you wish.

I wonder why there are two ways to access those settings. Manage Charging and Charge Settings? They both end up at the same place I think....
??

 

[RedStallion]

Tesla does a better job informing the consumer about this because they label the top 10% of the battery meter the "trip" range vs. "daily" range. On the Mach-E the 90% guideline is buried in the manual with no visual clues, so you might never know about it if you a new to EV's.

You can't charge Mach-E battery to 100% at all, because Ford reserved about 10% of the nominal capacity of the LG battery pack. What is shown as 100% is actually about 10% below the nominal capacity. We don't know if (but quite possible) Ford reduces this margin as battery is aging to keep the stated capacity intact.

 

[Mach-Lee]

You can't charge Mach-E battery to 100% at all, because Ford reserved about 10% of the nominal capacity of the LG battery pack. What is shown as 100% is actually about 10% below the nominal capacity. We don't know if (but quite possible) Ford reduces this margin as battery is aging to keep the stated capacity intact.

The buffer is about 11% and it's mostly at the bottom of the discharge curve rather than the top. Which means the display and the actual SoC are pretty close at the top. Charging to 100% on the display is about 97% actual SoC, so yes the actual voltage is right up there in the advisory zone. Not 100% but very close.

 

[RedStallion]

The buffer is about 11% and it's mostly at the bottom of the discharge curve rather than the top. Which means the display and the actual SoC are pretty close at the top. Charging to 100% on the display is about 97% actual SoC, so yes the actual voltage is right up there in the advisory zone. Not 100% but very close.

Where are those numbers coming from?
In fact battery manufacturers specify capacity at a certain load based on a discharge curve from some voltage to some cutoff voltage. The battery never discharged to 0 voltage. Can you provide the battery discharge curve and the levels Ford set as 0 and 100%?

 

[Garbone]

Where are those numbers coming from?

Wisconsin?

 

[RedStallion]

Wisconsin?

My bad, I though it was DC as usual. ?

 

[Dnogator]

Some have experienced an issue where the car charges to 100% irregardless of the settings so you may be in that group.

Changing the settings in FP.
Vehicle page
Manage EV tab
Charge Times

Select your location >
Change percentage
Then scroll down to find the SAVE button. (That last part tripped me up for a while.....)

Mine has never worked. Changed it in the car and on the app as you described many times. Both places say that the desired charge level is 90%, but it always charges to 100%. Hopefully, Ford will fix this with an update.

 

[hybrid2bev]

Mine has never worked. Changed it in the car and on the app as you described many times. Both places say that the desired charge level is 90%, but it always charges to 100%. Hopefully, Ford will fix this with an update.

Just curious: What charging schedule do you have set? If it has a portion (weekday and/or weekend) set for 24 hours try setting it up for 23 hours per day.

Also check in the FordPass app that you select ‘Use preferred charge settings' and not 'Charge when plugged in'.

 

[RedStallion]

Mine has never worked. Changed it in the car and on the app as you described many times. Both places say that the desired charge level is 90%, but it always charges to 100%. Hopefully, Ford will fix this with an update.

Perhaps your car GPS cannot identify the location of the vehicle. Is your garage where you charge underground? A concrete bunker? ?
I never had any problems with charging to the desired level.

 

[DaMeatMan]

I get what you're saying, and agree it's not catastrophic if you go up to 4.2V every once and a while. With that video, he charged the cells and let them sit. That means they would self-discharge to a safer level in a week's time. I wish he would have measured the voltage of that cell before he did anything with it after it's been sitting, it was probably very low after that time, and that might have caused damage too.

There would be much more damage if the cells were MAINTAINED at 4.2V through regular charges.

The concern is if people are repeatedly charging to 100% because they don't change their charge settings or know better, then the cells are spending enough hours up high that they lose their capacity faster than they should.

Tesla does a better job informing the consumer about this because they label the top 10% of the battery meter the "trip" range vs. "daily" range. On the Mach-E the 90% guideline is buried in the manual with no visual clues, so you might never know about it if you a new to EV's.

So yes, it's okay to charge to 100% every once and a while (perhaps few times per month) for longer trips, but it's best practice to minimize the amount of time above 90%. A dozen hours here and there, fine, but you don't want it sitting hundreds of hours up high with regular charging or you might knock extra % off your capacity.

I think the main point you are missing here is that Ford won't let you charge to 100% of actual capacity. The most you can actually charge to is 89% of the true capacity of the pack which is achieved when you charge until the MME state of charge meter reports 100% and stops charging.

In other words it's not possible to actually charge the MME to 100% because Ford made it impossible by protecting the battery from the user with such a huge buffer of 11% which cannot be used by the user.

That said, the second point was that even if Ford gave you full access to all the usable capacity of the pack (which they don't), but if they did you could charge to 100% state of charge and the degradation is not what most make it out to be, unless of course you do this very often.

 

[shutterbug]

Yes.
In Ford Pass app - go to vehicle page.
Select “Manage Charging”
Select radio button “Manage Charging schedules yourself.”
Under “Manual Charge Settings” select the arrow next to “preferred charge times.”
There should now be a location listed of “Home.”
Under that, don’t select “charge when plugged in” but rather “use preferred charge settings.”
Now select the arrow next to location “home.”
Select the charge level here.
“Set my own time” should be set to “anytime” or something else if you wish.

It's much simpler than that. When charging, you should see something like this:

Click on details, then you should see this

Click on Charge to 100%

That's it. It doesn't change your schedule and works every time for me.