Marlin's Dead Low Voltage Battery (LVB) -- Followed by Stuck in Park

[dtbaker61]

get one of these and when you get back put back the original

https://dakotalithium.com/product/dakota-lithium-12v-100ah-deep-cyle-lifepo4-marine-solar-battery/
At least you wont miss your trip.

I would NOT recommend changing chemistry of the LVB as the charge controller is likely hardcoded charge curve to match the oem battery. Especially not changing to Lithium in unheated Frunk since Li batteries should NOT be charged below 32F/0C

I WOULD recommend a frunkectomy and wrapping the LVB in a 12v Electric blanket wired directly to the LVB. As I put in a separate thread, I suspect the HV to LV charge controller has temp sensor on or near the LVB which is used to compensate for voltage drop in cold, and the programming is not allowing the HV to bump charge the LVB when it *should*.

$20 - https://www.amazon.com/Electric-Blanket-Tailgating-Emergency-Stalwart-BLUE/dp/B001QJQ22O/ref=sr_1_3

Sponsored

 

[kdryden99]

I would NOT recommend changing chemistry of the LVB as the charge controller is likely hardcoded charge curve to match the oem battery. Especially not changing to Lithium in unheated Frunk since Li batteries should NOT be charged below 32F/0C

I WOULD recommend a frunkectomy and wrapping the LVB in a 12v Electric blanket wired directly to the LVB. As I put in a separate thread, I suspect the HV to LV charge controller has temp sensor on or near the LVB which is used to compensate for voltage drop in cold, and the programming is not allowing the HV to bump charge the LVB when it *should*.

$20 - https://www.amazon.com/Electric-Blanket-Tailgating-Emergency-Stalwart-BLUE/dp/B001QJQ22O/ref=sr_1_3

I know i wasnt serious. Also the battery sensors wont work properly

 

[ChasingCoral]

I would NOT recommend changing chemistry of the LVB as the charge controller is likely hardcoded charge curve to match the oem battery. Especially not changing to Lithium in unheated Frunk since Li batteries should NOT be charged below 32F/0C

I WOULD recommend a frunkectomy and wrapping the LVB in a 12v Electric blanket wired directly to the LVB. As I put in a separate thread, I suspect the HV to LV charge controller has temp sensor on or near the LVB which is used to compensate for voltage drop in cold, and the programming is not allowing the HV to bump charge the LVB when it *should*.

$20 - https://www.amazon.com/Electric-Blanket-Tailgating-Emergency-Stalwart-BLUE/dp/B001QJQ22O/ref=sr_1_3

While I think temperature is exacerbating the problem, I don't think it is THE problem.

 

[SoriceConsulting]

Who the hell designed that battery configuration? Batteries are known to fail -period. Designing the car so that you have to go nuts taking things apart just to replace the battery is just idiotic.

 

[dtbaker61]

While I think temperature is exacerbating the problem, I don't think it is THE problem.

most likely either a bad sensor, bad sensor calibration, or bad programming in the LVB charge controller temperature compensation..... I'm just throwing an option out for the people that got 'bricked' to try for a short-term fix

 

[benk016]

I will say, My car has definitely given me the message it was charging the Low Voltage battery. It was however in my garage. Probably in temps of 0-7F. However, the car was plugged in at the time. Not charging, but plugged in. I have my car set to only charge during certain times, and The first time I was watching it at the scheduled time, the first thing it did was charge the LVB, and then started HVB charging after that. The LVB charge only lasted a few minutes. Maybe 10?

 

[ChasingCoral]

I will say, My car has definitely given me the message it was charging the Low Voltage battery. It was however in my garage. Probably in temps of 0-7F. However, the car was plugged in at the time. Not charging, but plugged in. I have my car set to only charge during certain times, and The first time I was watching it at the scheduled time, the first thing it did was charge the LVB, and then started HVB charging after that. The LVB charge only lasted a few minutes. Maybe 10?

Did the car ever charge the LVB at times when you didn't either (1) have charging scheduled or (2) wake it up some other way? It's an important question whether the Mach E is charging the LVB off the HVB during other times.

 

[sockmeister]

I would NOT recommend changing chemistry of the LVB as the charge controller is likely hardcoded charge curve to match the oem battery. Especially not changing to Lithium in unheated Frunk since Li batteries should NOT be charged below 32F/0C

I WOULD recommend a frunkectomy and wrapping the LVB in a 12v Electric blanket wired directly to the LVB. As I put in a separate thread, I suspect the HV to LV charge controller has temp sensor on or near the LVB which is used to compensate for voltage drop in cold, and the programming is not allowing the HV to bump charge the LVB when it *should*.

$20 - https://www.amazon.com/Electric-Blanket-Tailgating-Emergency-Stalwart-BLUE/dp/B001QJQ22O/ref=sr_1_3

It's probably contributing. Regardless of the amount of charging it receives, that battery shouldn't fully drain itself to 7.5 volts after sitting overnight.

There is clearly a phantom drain going on, perhaps some module on the car isn't shutting down properly, and continues to drain the 12v while the car is off. Or - the HVB DC-DC charger isn't activating when it should be on some cars. I am guessing the battery warming pumps run off of the 12V system as well and they might drain it pretty quick, running in the cold.

With some certainty I'm willing to bet that this is a software issue preventing the 12v from getting adequate charging, or causing it to drain faster than expected.

 

[sockmeister]

So, I really liked the hopeful message I had received from Ford that they would do everything they could to have Marlin back to me in 24 hours. Alas, that was not to be.

However, Ford has been all over this issue. As I reported yesterday, Ford engineers were in touch with the management and service department at Koons. The tech at Koons ran diagnostics, presumably coached by Ford engineers, working to find the problem. Of course, the car showed lots of system errors -- no surprise considering the 12v had tanked and system tests failed. They got those cleared and ran more diagnostics.

Today, a Ford engineer spent a couple of hours at Koons with my car, running more diagnostics and tests. The engineer left and was going to consult with the Mach E engineering team. The folks at Koons are awaiting word back from Ford engineers.

This buggered my plans a bit. I was due to take Marlin to Atomic Auto Salon yesterday for PPF and ceramic. I pushed off drop-off to today, now I've had to reschedule as TBD. This may get tight to have everything done in time to leave on the 28th to drive Marlin to Florida.

While these reports sound nice and calm, I've been anything but calm inside. If it weren't for the planned trip, I wouldn't be so concerned about timing, especially since we kept our Leaf and have 3 vehicles. Koons Ford did offer me a loaner if I need one but they probably don't want to loan me a car for a trip to FL.

Besides, their FCTP isn't in yet and part of the FL trip is to test the Mach E on a long-distance road trip, including multiple DCFC stops. I'll go back to fretting on my own and fill y'all in as I know more.

It is relieving and exciting to know that the Mach-E engineers are directly involved with troubleshooting your car!
I'm sorry that it's happening to you, but you're making a worthy sacrifice (though unwilling) with Marlin's time to help out probably all future Mach-E owners

Also - that thumping from the speakers was cracking me up. It legit sounded like someone was inside, trying to get out.

 

[BlueMach]

Who the hell designed that battery configuration? Batteries are known to fail -period. Designing the car so that you have to go nuts taking things apart just to replace the battery is just idiotic.

Tesla did. This is copied with pride, for worse and worse.

 

[benk016]

Did the car ever charge the LVB at times when you didn't either (1) have charging scheduled or (2) wake it up some other way? It's an important question whether the Mach E is charging the LVB off the HVB during other times.

I have not seen it any other time. But I feel like I did just get lucky to see it in the app the first time. I just happened to be watching it pretty steadily as it was my first scheduled charge.

Looking at my ChargePoint history, I do see a few "bumps" in the graph when it wasn't charging. But that could have been kicking on the battery warmer. I've seen some of these now.

Last night had 1 spike. Scheduled charge started at 10pm ended around 12:00am to 12:15am. Then there was a small spike of power usage at 4:00am that lasted until 4:20am. This small spike took my total delivered power from 20.59kw, to 21.6kw. So it delivered 1kw over that 15-20 minutes.

Sunday's charge, started at 7:00pm and ended at 3am. Then at 8:00am Monday a small draw happened until 8:30am. Went from 67.13kw delivered to 68kw. Then another small spike at 1:15pm 68kw to 68.81kw.

Again, not sure what it was doing in that time, but it did something. I haven't heard the battery warmer since the day I brought the car home. So either I've just missed it when its running or its the car doing other things as well.

 

[generaltso]

Tesla did. This is copied with pride, for worse and worse.

Tesla didn't invent inconvenient placing of 12v batteries. A lot of modern car makers put them wherever they can fit them, which may or may not be a place that's easy to access. My Outlander PHEV has the 12v battery in the trunk and it can't be removed without disassembling the load floor.

I once had a Dodge Journey with the 12v battery wedged between the front wheel and the front bumper. The only way to replace it was to remove the wheel and the wheel-well liner. Talk about inconvenient.

 

[BlueMach]

Tesla didn't invent inconvenient placing of 12v batteries. A lot of modern car makers put them wherever they can fit them, which may or may not be a place that's easy to access. My Outlander PHEV has the 12v battery in the trunk and it can't be removed without disassembling the load floor.

I once had a Dodge Journey with the 12v battery wedged between the front wheel and the front bumper. The only way to replace it was to remove the wheel and the wheel-well liner. Talk about inconvenient.

No but they invented burying them under plastic frunk trim with clips that break, and a panel in the bumper you have to remove and fish out wires and then jump together to pop the frunk - that is what I meant.

 

[ChasingCoral]

It is relieving and exciting to know that the Mach-E engineers are directly involved with troubleshooting your car!
I'm sorry that it's happening to you, but you're making a worthy sacrifice (though unwilling) with Marlin's time to help out probably all future Mach-E owners

Also - that thumping from the speakers was cracking me up. It legit sounded like someone was inside, trying to get out.

?
That was the NJ response too.
https://www.macheforum.com/site/threads/dead-low-voltage-battery-lvb.3490/post-108795

 

[Maquis]

Tesla didn't invent inconvenient placing of 12v batteries. A lot of modern car makers put them wherever they can fit them, which may or may not be a place that's easy to access. My Outlander PHEV has the 12v battery in the trunk and it can't be removed without disassembling the load floor.

I once had a Dodge Journey with the 12v battery wedged between the front wheel and the front bumper. The only way to replace it was to remove the wheel and the wheel-well liner. Talk about inconvenient.

You haven't lived until you've had to replace the starter on a Cadillac Northstar!