Decided to cancelled Mach E for a Model Y

[Ken7]

Remember free chargers are almost always L2 chargers. So you'll get 20-25 miles/hr. If you don't spend a lot of time in stores, you really aren't going to get much from these.

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[silverelan]

I do not disagree that there needs to be a way to distinguish between a level 2 AC charger and a low to medium-powered DC charger.

While I understand that you might have difficulty seeing the need to have these low to mid-range DC chargers (sub-100kW), there is clearly a use case for them as evidenced by the fact that even Tesla builds very large stations around their 72kW Urban chargers.

 

[dbsb3233]

I think there's *some* ongoing need, but I just think it's gonna prove to be relatively minor once 150+ kW become ubiquitous for the non-"Park it and forget it" charging. A lot of it is a leftover from a few years ago when 50 kW was considered the "fast" charging.

The BEV paradigm is changing rather fast. A few years ago (and even some today), range was short and BEV owners were stuck having to charge at every opportunity ("Always Be Charging", as they used to say). Enthusiasts had to do what they had to do to make it work. But as the market share for BEVs grows beyond niche, I just don't think many mainstream drivers are gonna want to put up with the ABC approach. I think the vast majority will just charge at home and not bother with top-offs (unless it's "free" of course where the freebie effect drives it).

 

[silverelan]

I think there's *some* ongoing need, but I just think it's gonna prove to be relatively minor once 150+ kW become ubiquitous for the non-"Park it and forget it" charging. A lot of it is a leftover from a few years ago when 50 kW was considered the "fast" charging.

The BEV paradigm is changing rather fast. A few years ago (and even some today), range was short and BEV owners were stuck having to charge at every opportunity ("Always Be Charging", as they used to say). Enthusiasts had to do what they had to do to make it work. But as the market share for BEVs grows beyond niche, I just don't think many mainstream drivers are gonna want to put up with the ABC approach. I think the vast majority will just charge at home and not bother with top-offs (unless it's "free" of course where the freebie effect drives it).

Yes, HPCs are perfect for road trips but I also think that sub-100kW DC chargers have a place in a plethora-of-chargers environment. It doesn't make sense to plug into a 150kW+ charger if you're gonna be at your destination for 1-2 hours. You'll either have to make another trip out to the car to unplug & move or get charged idling fees.

Since DC fast charging is a service, 150kW charging is going to cost a premium but 50kW can be had for much less. Toss in the times when 50kW aligns with one's shopping trip or stopover at Denny's, and it really works out for the best.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/bradte...-the-gasoline-thinking-of-250kw/#2a54043e7535

 

[dbsb3233]

Since DC fast charging is a service, 150kW charging is going to cost a premium but 50kW can be had for much less. Toss in the times when 50kW aligns with one's shopping trip or stopover at Denny's, and it really works out for the best.

Valid points. I guess I can see some ongoing uses for it. If there's one at the hotel on a road trip, I might choose to plug in early enough in the evening to "fill up" before going to bed (even though it's a pain to have to run out and move the car when done). Or in our case, we frequent Vegas casinos, where a 2-hour stop is common. If there's cheaper 50 kW charger when the situation works for it, it's a way to avoid expensive 150 kW charging.

I don't envision ever using one near home though, since I'll always be charging at home with plenty of around-home range.

 

[silverelan]

Valid points. I guess I can see some ongoing uses for it. If there's one at the hotel on a road trip, I might choose to plug in early enough in the evening to "fill up" before going to bed (even though it's a pain to have to run out and move the car when done). Or in our case, we frequent Vegas casinos, where a 2-hour stop is common. If there's cheaper 50 kW charger when the situation works for it, it's a way to avoid expensive 150 kW charging.

I don't envision ever using one near home though, since I'll always be charging at home with plenty of around-home range.

Here's a YouTuber talking about the Forbes article and he argues that the on-site charging infrastructure needs to match the use case.

Skip to 6:21

 

[ChasingCoral]

Remember free chargers are almost always L2 chargers. So you'll get 20-25 miles/hr. If you don't spend a lot of time in stores, you really aren't going to get much from these.

Most yes, all no. Maryland installed free DCFCs in their service plazas on I-95.

 

[ChasingCoral]

Valid points. I guess I can see some ongoing uses for it. If there's one at the hotel on a road trip, I might choose to plug in early enough in the evening to "fill up" before going to bed (even though it's a pain to have to run out and move the car when done). Or in our case, we frequent Vegas casinos, where a 2-hour stop is common. If there's cheaper 50 kW charger when the situation works for it, it's a way to avoid expensive 150 kW charging.

I don't envision ever using one near home though, since I'll always be charging at home with plenty of around-home range.

Au contraire. I had a case where I thought the car had been charged overnight but was not and I needed to start a long trip. The DCFCs near me (which fortunately were free at the time) were very handy.

 

[silverelan]

Most yes, all no. Maryland installed free DCFCs in their service plazas on I-95.

Ooh, this sounds interesting. How many and what power are they? Are they all over or just at select plazas?

 

[Ken7]

Most yes, all no. Maryland installed free DCFCs in their service plazas on I-95.

Which is why I said “almost always”

 

[ChasingCoral]

Ooh, this sounds interesting. How many and what power are they? Are they all over or just at select plazas?

Yep. Every single one of the service plazas (both). Each one has 6 combo CCS and CHAdeMO as well as a bank of Tesla Superchargers. Unfortunately they're only 50 kW but fingers crossed they upgrade them.

 

[dbsb3233]

Au contraire. I had a case where I thought the car had been charged overnight but was not and I needed to start a long trip. The DCFCs near me (which fortunately were free at the time) were very handy.

If I had a long trip in the morning and my battery were empty, I'd be heading for a 150 kW EA station instead of wasting an extra hour at a 50 kW.

 

[ChasingCoral]

If I had a long trip in the morning and my battery were empty, I'd be heading for a 150 kW EA station instead of wasting an extra hour at a 50 kW.

I'm still driving a Leaf. 50 kW is all it will take! It also only has a 30 kWh pack. I'll think differently once my FE arrives.

 

[agoldman]

I don't know what power charger I have in my garage. It was a level 2 a few years ago. What does that usually mean?

 

[dbsb3233]

I don't know what power charger I have in my garage. It was a level 2 a few years ago. What does that usually mean?

It's still Level 2. Should be able to look it up by model number to see the specs. Level 2 typically means it's 240V. Probably 32A, but it could be different.

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