Decided to cancelled Mach E for a Model Y

[Tpaguy]

Thanks for the insight and comments all. I will wait until I can test drive a Mach E before deciding. If I was to go with the Y, I would wait as long as possible because of the reported issues they are having with quality and rushing out product too fast.

It was quite appalling that Tesla would put a test drive car out their with an issue, as well as not being clean (I agree that could be a bad omen, like going to a restaurant with dirty restrooms!).

The Prime RAV4 was on my list until I learned Toyota is only going to make 5000 next year. The local dealer told me no chance of getting it from them.

Thanks again for the insight. I’m looking for any reason to overlook the current charging infrastructure issues and choose the Mach E. Hopefully Electrify America will show some improvement by end of the year.

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[Ponypower50]

I am staying with Ford. Any service issue I ever had with my Ford Vehicles, they have repaired under warranty and made good. Previously I have owned a 03 Mustang, 03 Focus, 04 Focus SVT, 11 Fiesta, 12 Focus, 13 Escape, currently own 13 C Max, 18 Lincoln MKC, 66 Mustang Convertible. As you can see
my salesman likes me.

 

[ChasingCoral]

I’ve been really torn between the Model Y and Mach E (have a preorder for both actually).

I personally like the look of the Mach E better and do feel like Ford will deliver a better finished product. The Model Y is okay but not great for finish quality.

I was invited this week to take a test drive of a Model Y. I showed up with my appointment and took a white Y out. Besides the vehicle being disgustingly filthy inside (I could write my name with my finger in the crud and dust on the dash), the tester vehicle had tech issues with the right side camera not working properly, so the car was throwing warning signs and autopilot was disabled. There were rattles coming from the backseat. The vehicle was super fast (performance model) but the ride was super harsh with the 21” wheels. I’ve read the smaller wheels have a much better ride.

The one thing that keeps me going back to the Tesla Y, candidly, is the supercharger network. I’ve been watching Electrify America’s stations on their app and throughout the entire state of Florida, the majority of the charging stations have at least 30%-50% of the chargers as broken, error or unavailable (for weeks at a time). Orlando right now has two stations completely shut down and Miami has three shut down. Tesla really has a built an excellent charging infrastructure and its their defining feature in my opinion. I pulled up Tesla’s stations and 90% had all stalls as operational (not throwing errors or reported broken). Electrify America’s Twitter page confirms people complaining about reliability and maintenance of their charging locations.

If Ford had access to a more reliable or well maintained charging network, it would be a no brainer for me. The Mach E, based on what I read, will be a better overall vehicle (and look better too).

I’m really torn and my heart wants to go with Mach E but my senses are nagging me to not discount the supercharger network being vital for long trips (I only have one vehicle). Particularly with hurricane seasons, if I ever had to evactuate again like I did for Hurricane Irma, I fear I would be SOL with electrify America’s network. Tesla had lines but they moved cars and got them charged.

Is anyone else facing the same dilemma and fears?

You also seem to be back to an oversight common on this Forum: with the Mach E you aren't limited to just EA stations. EVgo has just as many DCFC stations as EA in Florida and there are other companies as well. While most existing EVgo stations are 50kW, their new ones are going in at 150 kW:
March 02, 2020
EVgo Announces Opening of 800th EVgo Fast Charging Location
With record year of firsts in 2019, EVgo is leading the industry on renewable energy, Tesla connectors, and network growth
https://www.evgo.com/about/news/evgo-announces-opening-of-800th-evgo-fast-charging-location/

 

[silverelan]

You also seem to be back to an oversight common on this Forum: with the Mach E you aren't limited to just EA stations. EVgo has just as many DCFC stations as EA in Florida and there are other companies as well. While most existing EVgo stations are 50kW, their new ones are going in at 150 kW:
March 02, 2020
EVgo Announces Opening of 800th EVgo Fast Charging Location
With record year of firsts in 2019, EVgo is leading the industry on renewable energy, Tesla connectors, and network growth
https://www.evgo.com/about/news/evgo-announces-opening-of-800th-evgo-fast-charging-location/

This topic is definitely worthy of its own thread!

I think the reason for the focus being on Electrify America is because of cross country road trips. Oftentimes the only DC fast charging station between two city pairs is Electrify America.

Tesla's Supercharger Network is purpose built to sell cars by enabling owners to drive from home to any other city or tourist destination. Except for Electrify America, the business case for other charging providers does not really exist yet.

 

[dbsb3233]

You also seem to be back to an oversight common on this Forum: with the Mach E you aren't limited to just EA stations. EVgo has just as many DCFC stations as EA in Florida and there are other companies as well. While most existing EVgo stations are 50kW, their new ones are going in at 150 kW:
March 02, 2020
EVgo Announces Opening of 800th EVgo Fast Charging Location
With record year of firsts in 2019, EVgo is leading the industry on renewable energy, Tesla connectors, and network growth
https://www.evgo.com/about/news/evgo-announces-opening-of-800th-evgo-fast-charging-location/

The important part of that is the potential for more "faster" (150 kW+) chargers going in for the future. Since 50 kW is actually very slow "fast" charging. Unacceptably slow for a normal road trip refuel, IMO... although it depends on how desperate one it, of course. (And for that matter, all BEV charging is just relative degrees of slowness.)

One other point I forgot to make regarding the original post... in a hurricane evacuation, good luck finding an open retail charger of ANY speed. If that's really a concern, I'd be looking PHEV instead, like an (ironically-named) Escape or something.

 

[Ken7]

Fast chargers are very nice, but only if they work. Also remember that high speed chargers will generally taper their speed off quite quickly as the car tries to protect its battery.

Complaints about maintenance of EA chargers have been rampant from inception. I'm not sure how much, if any, improvement has been made.

 

[silverelan]

The important part of that is the potential for more "faster" (150 kW+) chargers going in for the future. Since 50 kW is actually very slow "fast" charging. Unacceptably slow for a normal road trip refuel, IMO... although it depends on how desperate one it, of course. (And for that matter, all BEV charging is just relative degrees of slowness.)

One other point I forgot to make regarding the original post... in a hurricane evacuation, good luck finding an open retail charger of ANY speed. If that's really a concern, I'd be looking PHEV instead (like an Escape or something).

DC chargers have unofficially split in their naming convention. Basically, anything greater than ~100kW is a High Powered Charger (HPC).

An argument can be made that DC chargers less than 100kW can be called "Destination" fast chargers. They're best installed in places where people go with the intent on staying 1-2 hours anyways; Applebee's, mall, downtown, etc. A typical 50kW station at one of these locations is great for around town apartment dwellers, especially if the stations are ubiquitous but 50kW is a complete detriment to road tripping.

 

[PS20221]

Particularly with hurricane seasons, if I ever had to evactuate again like I did for Hurricane Irma, I fear I would be SOL with electrify America’s network.

I’m also in FL and share your concerns. To help me choose, I researched Florida’s infrastructure plans.

It was announced July 10th, FL governor approved $8.6 million to install a total of 104 new DC Fast chargers along major highways in FL. This is a 50% statewide increase.

Note, there is an additional $16.4 million in reserve that must also be used for future charging stations in the state.

 

[dbsb3233]

DC chargers have unofficially split in their naming convention. Basically, anything greater than ~100kW is a High Powered Charger (HPC).

An argument can be made that DC chargers less than 100kW can be called "Destination" fast chargers. They're best installed in places where people go with the intent on staying 1-2 hours anyways; Applebee's, mall, downtown, etc. A typical 50kW station at one of these locations is great for around town apartment dwellers, especially if the stations are ubiquitous but 50kW is a complete detriment to road tripping.

I generally agree, although 50 kW is a "tweener" speed that I'm not sure has a wide "best-fit" window. L2 is perfect as the overnight or work-shift charging time (8+ hours) for most normal BEVs. The "park it and forget it" type of charging.

150+ kW is really needed for road trips, and even then it's too slow for many (most BEVs can't even handle more yet anyway).

To me, the "destination" criteria really only applies to those on road trips. If someone living in the area goes to the mall, they're usually gonna be on their home charge and usually don't need to add more at the mall. Most BEVs have plenty of around-home range now. When I leave my house at 80%, I won't bother plugging in at Applebees 10 miles from my house.

But people on a road trip might. But even then, I'll be looking for a hotel with overnight L2 as my first choice. With EA as the likely backup. That's not to say that every extra charging station of any speed doesn't help, but not sure 50 kW has a good best-fit. Probably it's best target is those that don't have home/work/school L2 charging capability at all and are stuck living off the next best thing they can find (although I know I wouldn't buy a BEV if I couldn't dependably "park and forget it" charge nightly).

 

[Kamuelaflyer]

What we describe as our intended use of the MME, MY or M3 (etc), is based upon a past that no longer exists. That applies to the Supercharger Chain, the EA chain etc as well. While I don't want to bring politics or the politics of COVI-19 into the discussion, we can't deny the profound effect the pandemic has had on our daily lives and driving habits.

As an example, if I was still living on the mainland,I could see taking the MME on a trip from our former house outside the San Francisco Bay Area to visit my elderly parents in Coeur d`Alene. Yeah, that would never happen atm. We might all be deciding L2 charging is more than sufficient for all our use of a BEV for quite some time to come.

 

[silverelan]

To clarify, I'm strictly speaking of "destination" in the sense that sometimes people drive to a spot with the intent of being there for 1-2 hours and so a 50kW DC charging station is perfectly appropriate. The downtown Pasadena megastation is a good example.
https://www.electrive.com/2020/05/28/pasadena-opens-fast-charging-plaza/

This type of DC destination charging is distinctly different than AC destination charging that involves driving somewhere for an overnight stay of 8-12 hours where L2 AC charging is better suited.

For road trips, we are in 100% agreement that 150kW is really the new minimum for long distance travel if we're talking about 75-100kWh batteries.

Great to see Florida is putting in DC fast charging around the state. I see the Fort Drum service plaza on the Turnpike has paired 125kW chargers. Hopefully there are more stations like this planned, like how NY is putting in 150kW stations throughout the state or Oklahoma covered their state with 200kW chargers.

 

[dbsb3233]

To clarify, I'm strictly speaking of "destination" in the sense that sometimes people drive to a spot with the intent of being there for 1-2 hours and so a 50kW DC charging station is perfectly appropriate. The downtown Pasadena megastation is a good example.

But as long as someone can "park it and forget it" charge at home (or work), why bother to use (and presumably pay for) public charging like that? Even if I'm at a restaurant across the street, I'm not gonna bother with that. I've got plenty of charge to get me through the day just from home charging.

There's always going to be some niche users, or course. Some enthusiasts that will use it "just because they can", type of thing. And probably some nearby workers or apartment tenants or hotel stayers that use it as their "park it and forget it" charging (rather than the 1-2 hour it's presumably intended for). I hope/assume they're charging for the it, but if not, then people will suck down the freebies of course. But again, I just don't see that as a major segment of users as BEVs start going more mainstream. "Park it and forget it" and road trip will be the vast majority of the targeted charging IMO.

 

[ChasingCoral]

DC chargers have unofficially split in their naming convention. Basically, anything greater than ~100kW is a High Powered Charger (HPC).

An argument can be made that DC chargers less than 100kW can be called "Destination" fast chargers. They're best installed in places where people go with the intent on staying 1-2 hours anyways; Applebee's, mall, downtown, etc. A typical 50kW station at one of these locations is great for around town apartment dwellers, especially if the stations are ubiquitous but 50kW is a complete detriment to road tripping.

I think a different term is needed as Tesla already established destination charger

But as long as someone can "park it and forget it" charge at home (or work), why bother to use (and presumably pay for) public charging like that? Even if I'm at a restaurant across the street, I'm not gonna bother with that. I've got plenty of charge to get me through the day just from home charging.

There's always going to be some niche users, or course. Some enthusiasts that will use it "just because they can", type of thing. And probably some nearby workers or hotel stayers that use it as their "park it and forget it" charging (rather than the 1-2 hour it's presumably intended for). I hope/assume they're charging for the it, but if not, then people will suck down the freebies of course. But again, I just don't see that as a major segment of users as BEVs start going more mainstream. "Park it and forget it" and road trip will be the vast majority of the targeted charging IMO.

If I'm visiting a store that provides free charging I'll usually plug in if there is an available slot. Of course, that may change once my range triples!

 

[dbsb3233]

If I'm visiting a store that provides free charging I'll usually plug in if there is an available slot. Of course, that may change once my range triples!

If it's "free", yeah, the equation changes. People will line up for just about anything if it's being given away for free, because it's being given away for free.

 

[Redundant]

Wonder how the automotive press will compare the Mach-E to the Tesla Y. https://www.autoblog.com/2020/07/23/tesla-model-y-first-drive/

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